Florida state law issues

Well, I've never been all that keen about the public bringing their own animals into a show I paid good money for tables in order to sell my animals anyway. I think this would be excellent cause for show promoters to just prohibit walkins from bringing in animals for any reason.

If someone comes up to your table to try to sell you an animal, just contact the show staff to have the agent, er 'person', escorted out the door.

So let me run this by you all. If a person buys an animal from you at a show, then an hour later comes back, for whatever reason, wanting to return the animal to you, would you be in legal jeopardy doing so if the customer does not have a permit? In effect, you are buying back that animal from the customer.

Also:

And why would the buyer get introuble if he HAS a CLASS III permit? It would seem to me that the only one that would get busted should BE the PERSON Trying to SELL the animals in this case THE OFFICER since he stated he didn't have a permit.

This is a good point. I don't believe I have ever seen any statute that said it was permissible for any authority agency to break the law in order to enforce the law.

That is why I think the summons would not hold up with a good attorney at your side.

happened. Petty entrapment, and these louses look at this as bust ! I dont know if the sale by an agent would be the same if it were to another individual as opposed to a licenced vendor. I am not that familiar with these laws even though I am a resident and was a vendor at that show. Rob may be in a better position to answer that question. JERRY

offered the Scarlets without actually having them, and may have indicated that they had the animals outside in the car. To the best of my knowledge, Lauren does not allow animals into the show, unless you are show vendor. But Richs point is well taken. This show was on the 13th. Lauren is having another show on the 28th at a different location. What if a customer purchased a herp and wanted to return it to the same vendor on the 28th. What if it was a prearranged agreement. Would the vendor be in violation?

There are to many possibilities in this scenero, and as indicated, a good attorney would make mince meat out of these super agents. Jerry

There may be a deeper look needed at this issue.

Are show promoters who allow the public to bring animals into the show, possibly to offer for sale, possibly placing themselves in legal jeopardy by knowingly allowing an illegal practice to take place? If overzealous agents will bust vendors, I would think busting a show promoter would look as a rather big feather in their cap.

Oh yea, They would be thinking they just busted the king pin. But you know The laws don't apply to the law enforcers if you really think about it. They can call you and set you up for a drug deal. they can speed to catch a speeder. And they can put potential prostitues on the streets to Entrap a buyer of sex or vice versa. So maybe this can be something they are allowed to do. As with the reptiles they can ask you to get them illegal animals even if you don't offer them first...some of this is going on as we speak. I like people to bring in snakes to shows to sell. I like getting deals on snakes they are not wanting to care for anymore. Does anyone have actual proof showing that a agent tried to sell snakes without a permit or tried to sell snakes he didn't even have. NO SNAKES NO CRIME. That would be like me going to a Police station and telling a Officer I had DRUGS when I didn't, I really don't think they could bust you if they don't see drugs/snakes. Unless they try and rap you with Intent to buy/sell with out a class III permit. But that seem kinda foolish for them to go after someone that has to have a class III permit to sell, unless the people busted didn't have a PERMIT either. then they might have a case. Just my opinion. Thanks DAVID

Well I know when I was doing Lauren's shows she did not allow outside animals in unless it was with a Vendor. From what I gathered in this situation the officers asked if vendors were interested in purchasing the Scarlets and the ones that were interested were given citations if they violated the rule by not verifying that the seller had the required license. In Florida anyone selling any animal must be licensed through the Permits of FWS. In this case with the Officers playing the part of having the animals they did not violate anything as they probably did not even have any animals. If they offered them to the vendors and the vendors wanted them more than likely the deal was set up to happen after the doors closed or in the parking lot. Anyone that is licensed and buys animals from an individual must verify that the individual has the required license.

I personally think it is a crock of Horse pucky and the only person that should get into trouble is the person trying to sell without a license. We should not be required to baby sit others in regards to them selling an animal. I can tell you many people online that are in Florida and advertise on KS and other sites that are not licensed to do so. Even to sell online in Florida you must be Licensed. While that should be cracked down big time they (Florida FWS) don't seem to want to pursue that situation but rather take the easiest thing they can and try and get a bust that way.


Also on the question if a person buys an animal and returns is a week or so later, no they would not be violating the rules as they are not selling the animal but rather obtaining a refund. In the State of Florida there is a regulation for Pet Shops (I am not sure if it extends to other sellers such as at shows) that if they sell an animal they must return the animal if there are health problems and such. This is a regulation that is not enforced at all but very well could be. Alot of Pet Stores and sellers have a "No Refund on Live Animals" Policy even though they are not supposed to do that.

The best opinion I can get at the big regional wholesaler is that it now all boils down to money. Florida Fish and Wildlife wants to get as many people permitted as possible to keep themselves afloat.
Myself, I do not mind paying the $50.00 per year to keep other idiots off my back. This is what I want them, as the government to do, and what I as the governed pay them well to do.
Of course, Thomas Jefferson is spinning at 15,000 RPM in his grave as I write this, because he never expected our personal freedoms to be so diminished.

Anyone have an opinion on the "inport permit" required in Kentucky? I have been told by certain parties that if you bring a reptile into Kentucky from another state you need a permit. If you travel through KY with a reptile from outside KY you need the permit (such as traveling from Alabama to Indiana via I-65).

Others have been very adament that reptiles are excluded from the import permit statute because they are not native wildlife.

Can anyone shed real good light on the situation in KY. If the strict intrepretation were correct, if ya live in The Bluegrass and go to an out-of-state show and buy a snake, you need the permit to re-enter the state with the snake (well, the snake needs the permit). You'd also need the permit if you were a big Florida dealer (just an example) traveling to a show in Illinois via I-65N would need the permit to enter KY and traverse the state of Kentucky.

BTW - there permit requires a vet certificate for the animals - so it's not just a simple permit.

Originally posted by markwebb
Anyone have an opinion on the "inport permit" required in Kentucky? I have been told by certain parties that if you bring a reptile into Kentucky from another state you need a permit.

Mark,
Yes, that is correct. Any wildlife that enters the state must be accompanied by an import permit.

If you travel through KY with a reptile from outside KY you need the permit (such as traveling from Alabama to Indiana via I-65).

According the way I read the laws as written, I would think the above statement is true as well. But a call to the guys at fish and game would clarify this.

Others have been very adament that reptiles are excluded from the import permit statute because they are not native wildlife.

Native or exotic, reptiles are NOT excluded from the import permit statute. Whoever told you this is misinformed.

Can anyone shed real good light on the situation in KY. If the strict intrepretation were correct, if ya live in The Bluegrass and go to an out-of-state show and buy a snake, you need the permit to re-enter the state with the snake (well, the snake needs the permit).

That is correct. If you went to Columbus and bought snakes, lizards, etc then you would have to have an import permit to bring them back to Kentucky. I thought we had this discussion on the KHS board??

BTW - there permit requires a vet certificate for the animals - so it's not just a simple permit.

Sorry but this is false. The requirement for a CVI has been waived for reptiles and amphibians. If you go to the Kentucky Fish and wildlife site, the regs are listed.

Hope this helps,
Dwight Good