Todd Seadorf of Palm Beach Exotics.....

Unless I misunderstood when i went to the meeting in Frankfort about the new herp laws in kentucky, the only reptiles that are covered under the "Transportation Permit" legislation as I think you will find it is called are native species of animals. As Blood Pythons do not now nor ever have they existed in the state of Kentucky, it is a non issue.

Thanks for the clarification, Donnie!

Just a side note here about using heat packs.

It is recommended that you actually use TWO heat packs when shipping to cold climates, rather than just one. Shake them both vigorously to mix the chemical material inside. If the material feels like a solid block, rather than loose powder, discard it. If you don't feel them becoming warm to the touch within 15 minutes after opening the plastic wrapper, discard them as well.

Wrap them both loosely in newspaper, not necessarily touching together, but both should be wrapped together in the same "package". We have recently started placing some shedded paper between the red air line and the newspaper to give a better air gap. This will allow the heat packs to work more efficiently, plus the heat from one pack will help to keep the other heat pack operating, even if the box is subjected to low temperatures during transit.

Place the heat pack FLAT on the BOTTOM of the box, so the heat will rise and help heat the entire box. TAPE it to the bottom of the box so it won't shift around during transit. Try to keep the animals from coming in direct contact with the heat pack itself.

Another side benefit of using two heat packs, is if you do get one that has a premature failure, you would still likely have the other one providing heat regardless.

As has been mentioned elsewhere. NO airholes in the box if you are shipping to colder climates. The box WILL NOT run out of air!
But it CAN run out of heat because of airflow through the box.

Use new boxes in good shape with at least 3/4 inch styrofoam insulation top and bottom, and all sides. Do NOT cut corners when it comes to shipping live animals.

Yes, Rich... the heat pack was solid when we pulled it out.

Michelle,
Thank you for setting me straight on the aspen issue. I haven't dealt with bloods in a very long time and was unaware of this. Quess we all learn something here.

P.s. if I'd been winning wes would have answered!!!

sorry spelled guess wrong. Please forgive me, got in a hurry

Well this thread certainly sunk to the bottom of the pile once the fact came to light that Donnie, Michelle, and David were guilty of breaking the law and imported this animal without a permit.

Originally posted by Donnie Smith
Unless I misunderstood when i went to the meeting in Frankfort about the new herp laws in kentucky, the only reptiles that are covered under the "Transportation Permit" legislation as I think you will find it is called are native species of animals. As Blood Pythons do not now nor ever have they existed in the state of Kentucky, it is a non issue.

Oh but it is an issue 'oh one that knows it all.' Maybe you should call the fish and wildlife department at 800-858-1549 and get the inside scoop. Or you can check it out yourself at their site here. Be sure and pay particular attention to section 4 of 301 KAR 2:082. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, especially if you were at the meeting in Frankfort.

So... let's see that vet report and import permit!!

I invite you to report me to Kentucky Fish and Wildlife.

Send me an e-mail and I will provide you with my personal address and phone number so the Fish and Wildlife people know where to find me. I think you will find that they already know who I am... Heck, my exact words appear in a different part of that legislation.

morti@redtailboa.net.

If you do not wish to do that, then that's up to you... But feel free to make all the accusations you like as they don't hurt anything here in this forum.

Just out of curiosity, do you have a stake in this deal? Or are you just a concerned citizen? It would be really funny if you ended up getting a whole bunch of people arrested because you like to bring up off topic issues.

Just my oppinion.

-Donnie "Morti" Smith

A portion of the regulation 301KAR 2:081 states: A non commercial Pet and Propagation Permit is required to possess,purchase, or propagate wildlife for non-commercial purposes. Transportation permits are required to import, transport,or recieve any live wildlife.....*Reptiles are specifically excluded from the definition of "wildlife" in regulation 301KAR 2:081, and are presumably exempt from permit requirements. Permits are required, however, to possess and/or propagate amphibians. These laws may have changed but, that was what I was quoted recently. If there is a violation keep in mind that BOTH parties could be charged.

David -

Who is Jim Lanier?

Is he in the KYHerpSoc?

Why is he so hateful to you and Donnie? What is his problem?

Doe he post on the KyHerpSoc message board?

Does he know what a nice young man you are? I don't think so !

What is his interest in this - does he have "a dog in this fight?" I don't understand his motivation or why he is so mean.

It sounds like Donnie and Raymond both produced statue provisions that exclude non-native species and were very adament that Jim is plain wrong. Donnie even basically said "put up or shut up".

This issue is quite controversial. I hear one person say you need the permits, and others quote provisions that exclude non-native species. What is the KyHerpSoc position on it? What's the real answer? I find it hard to believe that the legislations intent is to require a permit everytime one brings a lizard or snake into KY. What if you buy a snake at a show out of state - an unplanned purchase when you find just the female you have been looking for, for that love-starved male you have at home? Do you need to get a pre-emptive permit everytime you THINK you May purchase a snake at an out-of-state show? I don't think that's the intent.

Does anyone really know?

Anyway, since joining the herp society and surfing the 'web I have been amazed at how mean some people are. At the shows and at meetings I find only super nice people willing to go waaaaay outta their way to help fellow herpers. But on these boards I find people that wanna go waaaay outta their way to make people feel miserable. Why are there so many people out there like that? Why don't people like Jim just keep to themselves instead of being so accusatory and mean spirited?

'Tis the season to be merry and spread happiness. Jeez - no wonder we still have wars and international disagreements that lead to bloodshed and loss of life and property - we can't even get along on these boards and be happy as a herpin' community.

Thank goodness the KyHerpSoc has so many really really truly genuine nice folks as members.

This thread started with you posting info on the breeder who sent you the wounded animal. from what I saw you have been doing a great job nursing the snake back to health. That shows what a true kind and compassionate animal person that you are - working with the wounded snake. I don't think Jim realizes how great a young man you are - if he did he would not be so critical.

I like to look for the good out there - not the bad.

To Jim and other folks like him out there - relax, enjoy the company and fellowship of fellow herpers - - - and happy holidays.