(Super) Hypo Tangerine = co-dominant?

well i didnt really belong on this thread since i didnt have anything to add to the original topic just wanted throw my 2 cents sorry your thread was taken off course RHAC cheer up everyone chads not that bad goodnight all

i started reading this thread but then realized it would be a waste of time since i dont like arguing with people...so ill just post what ive seen in MY OWN BREEDING EXPERIENCES

these are from my own breedings working with pure ray hine hypos (got my original male which i STILL have in late '01) i would estimate i've produced in excess of 300+ offspring from hine x high yellows, hine x tangerines, hine x hypo tangerines (albey line and independent lines), of course i kept the best orange hine offspring over the years which makes up most of my tangerine colony today

the "hine hypo gene" is either co dominant or (partial dominant-expression of the heterozygote is intermediate to the expressions of the homoxygous genotypes and more closely resembles the expression of the homozygous dominant genotype), if u dont understand these vocabulary words please look them up in any college genetics textbook. IN MY OWN BREEDINGS from a hypo (no body spot) x normal, in fact produced offspring approximately 50% "hypo" and 50% normal, however since leopard geckos only produce 2 eggs these ratios are almost always 1 hypo and 1 normal from a clutch (if leos produced larger clutches that ratio is still statisically 50/50 but no guarentees just like pastel ball python x normal female). ive also noticed this from the "baldy" (no head spot) gene, baldy x head spots produces about 50% baldy and 50% head spot. however, the phenotypic traits of both the normal and the "morph" have quite a range of varability- meaning usually they are quite different

i do agree somewhat with kelli's observations about there being a possible "super" phenotype which is undistinguishable visibly from the "het". however i think there still needs to be alot of test breeding before coming to any 100% conclusions. the reason being is that MOST breeders crossed their hine hypo immediately into lines of tangerines and super hypo tangerines and then kept the best "tangerine x hine" offspring. the original "hine hypos" from '01 (and prior) are in fact quite "ugly" in my opinion, being white/off yellow with a faded body coloration. they are nothing spectacular (my opinion) compared to the "hine hypos" that u seen today since most had orange/tangerine or even high yellow influences bred into them. im not 100% sure that those are the "ghost" leos being sold now, but they sure resemble them to me? anyways just my experiences

-jon

oh and if it makes you feel better im pretty sure you all know more than me : )

forgot to mention that i believe i got my "hine hypos" AFTER kelli did (which would make her more knowledge than me), but in the same year. according to my memory i got them a few months after she did, wow that was a long time ago lol

Originally Posted by robin s.

well damn if i wasnt right LMAO... cry baby reported me, cuz he cant handle it you need to grow up a bit to play with the adults chad



Quote:
Dr Owens 05-13-2005 Name calling and general derogatory statements [ View Post] No Comment


and doesnt even have the spine to email notify me or pm notify me... hmmmm for every point i have ever gotten i recieved an email or pm but whenever i get em from jay, nothing i have recieved

all the points except one since 10-13-04 have been from jay is it me or does someone see a pattern here?

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Yes, the other warning points were from myself and Ken Harbart. The only reason Jay gave you those points you refer to was because he logged on before I did. Otherwise it would have been ME giving you those points. Last warning, Robin, tone it down and cut out the derogatory stuff or you are going to be suspended.

Thank you for posting Jon. Love ya, Man. Yes it was a long time ago when we got our first Hine line carrot tails! Remember how awesome they looked to us back then! And now look how far we have come with the line. It's pretty darn cool.

The only reason I am thinking there is some form of "super" super hypo is because I have produced a couple of geckos that when bred to non super hypo females produced all super hypo offspring. In one case in particular, I bred one of my males (King) to two Bell albino females a couple years back and evey single gecko I produced from those breedings was a super hypo!

Originally Posted by KelliH

Thank you for posting Jon. Love ya, Man. Yes it was a long time ago when we got our first Hine line carrot tails! Remember how awesome they looked to us back then! And now look how far we have come with the line. It's pretty darn cool.

The only reason I am thinking there is some form of "super" super hypo is because I have produced a couple of geckos that when bred to non super hypo females produced all super hypo offspring. In one case in particular, I bred one of my males (King) to two Bell albino females a couple years back and evey single gecko I produced from those breedings was a super hypo!

when you say that every gecko produced was a super are you refering to the way they look or when bred they all produced all hypos?

so you admit that maybe someone tuning in say now would get more valuble info then the early years when no one knew jack

Hmmm. Well. Would you not say that someone that has been around since the "early years" and is still in the game would have more valuable info to share than someone that has been working with leopard geckos for, say, a couple of years?

yup i will definatly go with that all the info out there stemmed from all of you who have been in the game since the beginning i wasnt trying to implie that a newby would somhow learn more than you just becuase maybe the info is right on now esp. since the info was worked out by all of you who have worked with these genes, just sayin that chad is pretty knowledgeable about genetics and that being new to the community doesnt mean he doesnt know anything sorry i came off wrong

i was called dork, bed wetter, and cry baby. you think im not going to report you, robin?

you have 40 something almost 50 warning points. im sure there are more people who would rather see YOU leave.

kelli,
i realize robin is your friend and i realize you guys think i come off like some sorta jerk but maybe you should read this whole thread over from the begining.

i never claimed to know more than you i just claimed to know about ray hines hypos and moreso THE PROPERTIES OF CODOMINANCE.

you and robin turned this into a verbal spat. youve both been very nasty towards me on this thread and its apparent. YES ive only worked with geckos for a couple years. NO ive never bred a WT gecko to a SHCT. but what does that have to do with genetic knowledge?

all i did was correct some information that was incorrect and posted on a public forum. that doesnt make me arrogant. not allowing yourself to be corrected is though.

for the record i believe most of the hard work thats been done in leopard geckos was done long before i came on the scene. linebreeding, purchasing and combining morphs. and they didnt always have the internet so i deeply respect what the vetrans have done for this hobby. nowadays all you need is an internet connection and a credit card to get reptiles that are simply mindblowing. check out all the things you have access to at a click of a mouse now. albino hognose, rhino vipers, sunglow boas, albino chondros, applegate pyros, striped graybands, vanishing pattern hypo hondurans...

type any of those into Google and see what there is out there. its amazing! when i was a kid we had california kingsnakes, gopher snakes, garter snakes and the occasional pacific rattler. when i found out you could buy snakes i about crapped myself... "what kinda snakes?!"

so in the past 5 years i have had phone conversations discussing albino and hypo hognose with Richard Evans of albinohognose.com, had reptile genetics and morphs explained to me from terry dunham from albinotricolor.com in a series of emails (in explicit detail... thanks terry...you da man!), and have spent countless hours on kingsnake.com's milksnake and hognose forum not to mention have had the pleasure of being an active part of this leopard gecko forum for 2 or more years. ive kept and bred hognose and have kept a number of wild caught reptiles ranging from gopher snakes to collared lizards that ive collected in my herping adventures. not to mention what i have now.

ive said this before but i dont claim to know everything either.

my genetics information comes mainly from cable tv, text books, science magazines, terry dunham, my own experience working with them and here. not to mention the phone conversations ive had with vinny (diabloboa) and jeremiah (Diablo Snakefarm). you think geckos arent a major part of my life? try telling that to my girlfriend.