Leopard Gecko Registry; Unneeded Bureaucracy?

Ok, I went ahead and updated the LGR FAQ page with some of the questions asked here. All of your input was very important, so please if anyone has any suggestions or further comments, please email me!

What is the LGR?

The Leopard Gecko Registry is a searchable registry database for Leopard Geckos. We collect, maintain and provide information for the Leopard Gecko Community.

What does the LGR do?

We provide free information to the public about the Leopard Gecko Community and maintain a database that is easily accessible over the internet. Our goal is to assist the Leopard Gecko Community in building and all inclusive family tree that can be easily searched. Breeder contact information, breeder stock and discussion forums are available for use to their entire community.

Why a registry?

Anyone can search for the ancestry of their Leo and see what morphs and bloodlines it originated from. For those who care about breeding certain lines and keeping their bloodlines true to their origin, they would no longer need to contact the original breeder to find out detailed information of a specific specimens heritage. Many small time breeders come and go and when they leave the industry, their information is lost. A registry allows important information to last forever. Information on a particular gecko can be kept much more easily. Nobody has to say “that’s what I was told” and there is no information lost, since the information is readily available in the database.

What does the LGR do for a breeder?

The LGR provides a breeder with a tool to supply information on their breeding stock without having to go back through their own records. A breeder can simply point a buyer into the direction of the LGR to see instant documented proof of a particular specimen. It is also a source to research new lines, genealogy and future breeding stock.

What does the LGR do for a buyer?

The LGR provides any available information on a particular gecko or bloodline.

What is a Registered LGR Name/Number?

A registered name/number is the name a breeder uses to identify a particular specimen in the database. Each breeder will be assigned an acronym that will be placed in front of their chosen Registered Name/Number to prevent duplicates and for simple search purposes.

What is a Breeder Acronym?

The LGR assigns an acronym to each registered breeder as a way to identify with a glance the owner of a particular specimen. The acronym is also used to search for all the registered geckos of a particular breeder.

What are Specimen Registration Certificates?

The LGR offers three certificate options. A basic 4” x 6” grayscale certificate, a basic 4” x 6” full color certificate and a pedigree 8” x 10” full color certificate; information available on the printed certificates can also be viewed online. Basic certificates contain specimen information such as the assigned LGR number, the registered name/number, the sex, the year of hatching, the breeder ID number of who hatched the specimen, owner name and two photos. Pedigree certificates contain more detailed information including registered name/number of the parents and grandparents of the specimen; images of the parents are also available on these certificates.

How do I register my gecko?

Submit the Specimen Registration Form (paper form or online submission), supply the LGR with any necessary fees and upload the two required photographs of your Leo. Your registration will be then be reviewed and uploaded to the LGR database and in 2-6 weeks you will receive your Certificate of Registration for the Leo you submitted.

What if my Leo does not have registered parents?

Any Leo can be registered. Simply register your Leo and leave blank the information that you do not know. A new branch in the LGR will be created, starting with your Leo.

Does registration cost anything?

Breeder ID Registration is completely and always free. Until January of 2007, any gecko hatched in 2005 or prior is free to register with a basic grayscale certificate. If during this grace period, any breeder wishes to opt for the basic full color or pedigree full color certificates the cost is simply the difference between a grayscale and the chosen certificate. To view costs with the LGR, please go to the fees link.

How is ownership transferred?

If a registered gecko is sold, a Transfer of Ownership Form must be submitted by the new owner to the LGR along with the original certificate to update the database and make any requested updates. The original printed certificate would only have been given to the individual who submitted the registration, and in turn must be given to the new owner. If by chance the buyer does not want to transfer ownership and the gecko remains in the database as the breeders stock, the breeder can email the LGR and notify them of the situation and the gecko will then be put on an "inactive" status. The gecko would only be returned to "active" status if an individual supplies the original certificate and submits a Transfer of Ownership. The LGR does require a current photo to be submitted so that we can verify the transfer.

As a breeder, how do I participate?

Simply submit a Breeder Registration Form and create a log in account to access the LGR database. We will provide you with a breeder ID number and mail your Breeder Registration Certificate to you. For each gecko in your breeding colony, fill out a Specimen Registration Form and provide the required ID photos and fees.

What if I don’t have a company name?

If you do not have a company name, the LGR can register this as your full legal name. If at a later date, you do acquire a company name, the LGR can update the information in the database.

What if I am co-owners of a business?

Simply submit a Breeder Registration Form for each owner and in the comments section let us know who you are partnered with. You will each receive a Breeder ID Certificate. Each owner will also have to create a log in account to access the LGR database.

How do I make a correction?

Corrections to sex, genetics and special notes are acceptable changes to existing records. If you believe there is an error on the part of the LGR, notify us immediately. If a new certificate needs to be printed, send us the original certificate and we will mail you a new one at our expense if it is due to our error. If a new certificate needs issued and the error is not ours, there is a $3.00 fee to supply a new certificate.

What does the LGR do with ID photos?

The person who took the photo retains all copyrights, but agrees to give the LGR permission to use the image in the database and on certificates.

What does the LGR do about altered images?

The LGR hopes that any Registered Breeder would be respectful to the LGR and their fellow breeders as to present an unaltered image. If their are serious suspicions and numerous individuals contact me with concerns, the matter will be presented to the Leopard Gecko Community for review. This allows the individual in question to be judged by his or her peers and provides them the opportunity to provide additional photos of the gecko in question. The LGR itself will not be pointing fingers at anyone for altered photos. That is up to the Leopard Gecko Community to decide in the end.

How accurate is the database?

Essentially, the information in the database is only as accurate as the individuals who submitted it. The credibility of the person who registered their stock is important and misrepresenting entries in a public record reflects poorly on the submitter. It is not possible for the LGR to 100% validate the accuracy of the data submitted, but all data in the registry can be traced back to the person who originally submitted it.

Will the LGR be able to keep up with new mutations coming out?

The LGR database is designed so that the structure can be easily updated to reflect changes in genetics and morphs. Whenever a new gene is proven out, the LGR can add that gene to the database so that it can be followed just like any of the current genes.

Can any gecko be registered?

Any Leopard Gecko can be registered with the LGR. Please visit herpregistry.com to find registries related to other species of reptiles.

Does it matter what country I live in for me to participate with the LGR?

Absolutely not, the LGR does not take preference over an individual’s country of origin but please keep in mind receiving paperwork may take longer then the usual 4-6 weeks.

What if my Certificate is lost, destroyed or stolen?

A duplicate certificate may be purchased for half the charge of the original certificate. Duplicates may only be purchased by the person whose name is listed in the database as the owner.

Can I withdrawal my registration as a breeder or give my breeder number to someone else?

The breeder ID number, owner’s name, and company name can not be deleted. This is because if any individual is trying to research a registered gecko and the gecko is linked to a particular breeder, the absence of that breeder would essentially lead to a dead end. While we will not delete an individual for any reason from the registry, if a particular person does not participate in the LGR (IE registering geckos, participation in discussion forums, etc) they will be put on "inactive" status. This is to prevent abuse of the LGR as simply a free place to submit a website link.

Can I withdrawal my registration of a Leo or transfer a different one to an existing number?

Once added to the LGR database, the numbers are permanent and cannot be deleted, removed, or reassigned. Keep in mind that the function of the registry is to have a permanent record of a family tree.

How much would it cost to register all of my breeding stock?

Bulk registrations are available at a discounted rate for five or more submissions. Until January of 2007, any gecko hatched in 2005 or prior is free to register with a basic grayscale certificate. If during this grace period, any breeder wishes to opt for the basic full color or pedigree full color certificates the cost is simply the difference between a grayscale and the chosen certificate. To view costs with the LGR, please go to the fees link.

What if I am a breeder and wish to register hatchlings I plan on selling?

A Pre-Registration Form will need to be submitted to the LGR for each hatchling produced that the breeder wishes to offer a buyer the option to register a hatchling. This form only applies to hatchlings a breeder plans to sell. It is simply an additional way to verify a hatchling came from a particular breeder and a particular pairing. Two sets of stickers would be supplied to the Breeder per pre-registration to place on the deli cup of the sold gecko and onto the Specimen Registration form for the new owner to submit to the LGR (with the necessary registration fees). The cost to the breeder is $0.50 a hatchling for pre-registration.

Does the LGR set or enforce any morph standards?

It is not the intention of the LGR to create the only acceptable standards for Leopard Gecko Morphs. It takes input from breeders from across the world to discuss and agree on what defines a particular morph. These standards are currently flexible until their is a time when the majority of breeders can agree on a definition. The photos presented on the Standards page are of "ideal" specimens. The only way the LGR would step in is if someone was obviously registering a Leo under an incorrect morph (IE a normal registered as a SHTCT). Part of the purpose for all registered geckos having a viewable certificate online is for others to judge for themselves what they think a particular gecko "grades" at.

Why don’t you have a checkbox certain morphs?

The LGR is including all of the most common morphs and any genes that are known. Many breeders have unique names for one or more of their lines, and it would be impractical to include them all. An example of this would be the Hybino/Sunglow/Hyglo trade names; essentially these geckos are Hypo Albinos and thus when registering these geckos, both Albino and Hypo would be checked and a notation can be made in the comments section listing its trade name.

About people having 300+ hatchlings. I understand your very busy and dont want to register your 40 females, but as Stephanie said, you can do yor high end stuff. And say you sell 300 geckos that year. All you have to do is kindly ask the person who is buying your gecko to join the LGR. And i know if i buy a gecko from sombody like KelliH, or Jeremy,GGG or anybody big that i would take in the advice they give me. So a big breeder can potentially get 200 geckos into the LGR, and dont forget that the breeder of the gecko is on the certificate too.

point being here is everyone should register and participate. not she did not say you had to register all of your animals. jsut some or maybe not even that. all you HAVE to do is be active on the forums.

I think a number of individuals will be highly impressed with what we're offering on the new site. We hope, with the much appreciated help from a few of the Registered Breeders who have accepted our request for help testing, that everything will be up and running smoothly by March 1st.

Since the ACR has been brought up and referenced several times in this discussion, I would just like to point out that the ACR was not created with the purpose of being able to stop anyone from mislabeling stuff or to control labeling standards for classifieds or auctions or shows. It seems like this is a central theme in the discussions I've read about getting a registry going for leos, and I wanted it to be noted that the ACR is not involved in any way in setting, establishing, maintaining, enforcing, encouraging, or discouraging any standards.

The ACR was created with the goal of building a family tree. It is a communication tool, just like this forum or the BOI, except that it uses a different format (such as the checkboxes) so that the information to be communicated uses a language that's as simple and common as possible, and can be easily written and read. As long as people can use it to participate in putting their snakes into the family tree, IMO it is a success.

A lot of people are fanatics about keeping breeding records for their colony, but this only benefits the individual who has access to those records. With the ACR, everyone who participates is able to keep their records AND tie them together with everyone else's records. Without the ACR someone could go buy a Lava from Seller A who tells Buyer B that they bought it from Breeder C, and Seller A's verbal assurance that Breeder C told them that it originated in Joe Pierce's stock and is possible het for anery. Or if they're lucky they might even be able to get all of that in writing from Seller A after emailing them and asking for information. With an ACR certificate they can instead look in the database and view the family tree all the way back through a multitude of breeders and owners, down to the wild caughts that started the line, and also "sideways" to see cousins and siblings and other related snakes. It isn't seventeenth-hand hearsay that may have been lost in translation or forgotten on the way back from the show, it is first-hand information directly from the source. That right there is cool, and that's what the ACR is all about.

I think that one of the reasons so many have decided to use the ACR is because there is nobody telling anyone else how they can or cannot label anything. Nobody has to surrender control of morph names or morph labels or any kind of "standards" to a third party in order to participate in the ACR.

I don't believe that the BOI would succeed if Rich decided that he was going to go through and re-write peoples' posts to say what he thought the poster meant to say, or what he thinks the poster should say, or if Rich decided he was going to use it to set standards of how people are supposed to do business, what forms of currency they will accept, what their TOS should be, how they handle refunds or specific shipping problems, etc. The BOI relies on peer review and does not set standards of doing business. It allows the community to gather in one place and do that as a whole.

By the same token, the ACR does not in any way tell people how they can or cannot describe their snakes. If someone wants to register a normal cornsnake as a "sunglow" they can do so. When the record is being processed, they will get an "are you sure?" email to confirm that is how they want it entered, but as long as it is not R-rated, we do not control what anyone puts in. We also don't take any responsibility for the truthfulness or accuracy of any record, which (based on what has been said in this thread) the LGR does.

What we do provide as a third party is not control, but the same thing as a notary: we can confirm that a record was indeed entered by such and such a person in such and such a way because we have the paper trail pointing back to them. It is up to peer review whether or not that data is "true."

Again, I just wanted to point out, since the ACR is being used as a model for comparison, that this is IMO a key difference between the two.

the point of the LGR is to do the same thing as the ACR but with a better control that doesnt have to be left up to John Doe himself. maybe the ACR isnt such a great example. the AKC even though its base doff of dogs is alot better of a choice. my hope is that the LGR will rid the market somewhat of false impressions and mislabeling of morphs. i was skeptical about it, but i actually want it to succeed. i really am tired of seeing "urban line tang female" all over the place when its obviously not something of craigs.

well several people here argued they wouldnt try just because they didnt thin kti would work. well thats the kind of role your setting. think about people like me who can do and will look up to you guys for years to come. just by hearing the first few posts by keeli and jeremy and what not i thought well fack it whats the point if no ones gunna try. then i thought about it a lil bit and decided its the wrong attitude. im not trying to be hostile but the veterans here have to remember what kind of role theyre setting and that wha tthey say really is taken to heart.

I said it probably wouldn't work for me. Role model? Well, I try to be an honest person that helps others, but I am only a gecko breeder. It shouldn't matter whether I choose to participate in this program or not, you should do what you feel is right for you. I have my reasons why I prefer not to get involved in it at this time. Please respect my choice as I do yours.

i really am tired of seeing "urban line tang female" all over the place when its obviously not something of craigs.

But Craig's company isn't listed on the breeder list either...?

This is all just my opinion. I don't see where this would help me. I know my bloodlines. This just creates more work.

The only people it helps are the smaller breeders. It would validate their breeders and inflate their business. Taking away from the larger breeders faster. The people who come out with the new morphs wouldn't make as much because they will be competing with their own offspring.

It takes a lot of money to come up with new things. Feeding breeders, making hets, and all the time involved. Now the person you sell your offspring could potentionally charge the same price as you.

I would rather make my own reputation rather than ride someone else's. I would feel better having earned someones business for my work than the person i bought it from.

The idea of a public lineage site is appealing. I just am leary of problems that could stem from this. With that said please withdraw my name from your breeder list. Best of luck and i wish you all well.

Originally Posted by The NY Gecko

i really am tired of seeing "urban line tang female" all over the place when its obviously not something of craigs.

I really don't understand what the confusion is as far as morphs are concerned. It's not that hard to give craig an email or a phone call to confirm. Yes sometimes you may have to track even further than just going straight to TUG. I mean come on, what other confusion is there, and if your that worried about it go to a reputable breeder. Yes you may pay more but it's just like buying a new car as opposed to buying used. You know what your getting into.