Leopard Gecko Registry; Unneeded Bureaucracy?

Originally Posted by shrap

Tom, I was completely laughing as I was typing that..... like I said, I aint mad at you.

I just have a different view point about the Registry than you do and it has absolutely nothing to do with the advertising aspect of it.

glad i could be of humoral assistance, its why im here

Believe it or not, having links on your site to others helps generate more traffic to your own site... wanting to charge someone for links tells me you are just looking to cash in. You denied it earlier, but I would have also if it was me.

I understand the "bookmarking" idea someone mentioned generating additional traffic. However, unless an individual breeder is specifically linking to the LGR (which of course is not required), I don't see that much traffic going in that direction.

wanting to charge someone for links tells me you are just looking to cash in.

Where was it stated that the LGR was charging to have an individual linked on the LGR website? Yes, we will be offering advertising options, but that does not pertain to the Breeder List. My statement on the Breeder List abuse is simply in reference to an individual being inactive with the LGR. That does not necassarily mean registering their geckos but includes discussions on the LGR forum (I hope to have running shortly) and generally not showing they are an active member interested in the project.

You denied it earlier, but I would have also if it was me

Luckily, my denial is the truth.

I just want to say that I think the idea is not a bad one. For me personally, it wouldn't work. I produce 700+ leopard geckos every year, it just is not practical for me to spend the time to register every gecko I sell. Keeping up with hatch dates and lineage is my job as a responsible leopard gecko breeder, and I am happy to provide that information to my customers.

With that number of geckos, it would be extremely taxing, and I 100% understand that. However, it is an option for you (and others) to simply register a particular line (Example Mack Snows) to allow interested parties to research.

I'm also not crazy about the idea of "standards" being defined by someone else.

I agree. Which is why the LGR states: "It is not the intention of the LGR to create the only acceptable standards for Leopard Gecko Morphs. It takes input from breeders from across the world to discuss and agree on what defines a particular morph. These standards are currently flexible until their is a time when the majority of breeders can agree on a definition. The photos presented are of "ideal" specimens." That is one of the reasons why I want to get the LGR forums rolling. I want to hear input from everyone on Leo standards to see if an agreement can be made at all. The only way the LGR would step in is someone is registering an obvious normal as a SHTCTB (as an example).

Steph I have a question. How will Hets be handled? Since alot of newbies start with hets and I myself have several this year I am curious. Also what about when something different pops up from these hets?

Their is an option to mark hets. If a particular gecko proves not to be het (or het of something unexpected) the database will be updated with the new information. Now, for the unproven genetics (IE the ones we are not 100% sure how they work), their is no het option, but a notation can be made in the comments section such as "from Jungle lines." We do plan on holding breeding trials for Registered Breeders to participate in and report back to us what the crossings produce. It is our hope that it will help us collectively understand genetics of the unknowns.

Ok, remember the thread that Jon Ho started the other day asking everyone's opinion about what percentage of carrot tail his geckos had? Just about everybody had a different opinion. I've had many discussions on this forum about what constitutes a "hybino" and makes it different from a "sunglow". Craig's sunglow is Alberto's hyglo is Kelli's hybino. See what I mean? I know, some of you may be thinking, "well, that's exactly the reason we need a standard definition for each morph!", but I am pretty sure Craig is not going to change the name of his sunglows to fit into someone else's standards or definition of what the morph is or should be. I wouldn't either. And I promise you that there is no way that the majority of leopard gecko breeders are going to agree on what defines a carrot tail, or a hybino, or what shade of orange a tang has to be for it to be a standard A+. It just isn't going to happen.

I do think you have a neat idea, and I am certainly not knocking the concept. It just really seems like it may be more trouble than its worth, certainly for me, hopefully not for you.

Originally Posted by KelliH

Ok, remember the thread that Jon Ho started the other day asking everyone's opinion about what percentage of carrot tail his geckos had? Just about everybody had a different opinion.

Percentage of carrotail is definitely in the eye of the beholder. We would never standardize that. Unless a gecko obviously has a 10% carrotail and is listed as 90% the LGR would not step in.

Originally Posted by KelliH

I've had many discussions on this forum about what constitutes a "hybino" and makes it different from a "sunglow". Craig's sunglow is Alberto's hyglo is Kelli's hybino. See what I mean? I know, some of you may be thinking, "well, that's exactly the reason we need a standard definition for each morph!", but I am pretty sure Craig is not going to change the name of his sunglows to fit into someone else's standards or definition of what the morph is or should be.

I've already nipped the one in the butt. Essentially, a Hybino/Sunglow/Hyglo is a Hypo Albino, correct? So, when registering that gecko, you would mark both Albino and Hypo (or Super Hypo). In the comments section, you can place Hybino/Sunglow/Hyglo notation.

Originally Posted by KelliH

And I promise you that there is no way that the majority of leopard gecko breeders are going to agree on what defines a carrot tail, or a hybino, or what shade of orange a tang has to be for it to be a standard A+.

We are not useing a gradeing system for Tangerines. Thought about it, but I definitely do not want to step on anyones toes. Again, Tangerine is something in the eye of the beholder (gradeing at least). Part of the purpose for all registered geckos being able to be viewed online is for others to judge for themselves what they think a particular gecko "grades" at. If they don't like the "grade" of the parents, they won't be interested in the offspring.

I have to agree with Kelli. I do not think that the leopard gecko community can agree on a set of standards. Not to mention the fact that, in my opinion, the standards for many of the morphs should and will be ever changing. As the animals become better and better the bar must be raised.

OK Steph that makes sense with the Hets.

Next question. What about the pictures? How do you or the LGR plan on regulating the pictures. What I mean is I have seen and heard several times on this forum and others about different cameras, lighting, and comps making a difference in pictures. Also I think it was Cory of Saltwater that just posted a good example of what a lillte tweeking of the levels could do.

Steph I don't mean for it to sound like I am trying to cause problems I am just curious. I really do think it's a great idea.

Originally Posted by g&mgeckos

Steph I don't mean for it to sound like I am trying to cause problems I am just curious. I really do think it's a great idea.

I am extremely pleased that you are asking questions and I am all too happy to answer them.

Originally Posted by g&mgeckos

Next question. What about the pictures? How do you or the LGR plan on regulating the pictures. What I mean is I have seen and heard several times on this forum and others about different cameras, lighting, and comps making a difference in pictures. Also I think it was Cory of Saltwater that just posted a good example of what a lillte tweeking of the levels could do.

I highly doubt their will be regulations on photos. It would be extremely difficult to catch a well done adjustment to a photo. We also would not want to take it upon ourselves to accuse anyone of enhancing their photos (especially if we were to make a mistake ). We would hope that any Registered Breeder would be respectful to the LGR and their fellow breeders as to present an unaltered image.

If their are serious suspicions and numerous individuals contact me with concerns, I can take the image and use a handy-dandy color measurer thing (real technical, huh? I don't know what the blasted machine is called, it's new) we've got at work and run it through. That would be under EXTREME circumstances of course and not something I particularily would like to do.

Another option would be to use the forums to "judge" whether or not the photo is altered...Allow the individual in question to provide other photos of the gecko...

That all of course up in the air. I do want to make it clear though, the LGR itself will not be pointing fingers at anyone for altered photos. That is up to the Leopard Gecko Community to decide in the end.

Well, sounds like you have really put a lot of thought into the planning of this, and I wish you the best. :-)

Originally Posted by Jeremy Letkey

I have to agree with Kelli. I do not think that the leopard gecko community can agree on a set of standards. Not to mention the fact that, in my opinion, the standards for many of the morphs should and will be ever changing. As the animals become better and better the bar must be raised.

IMO its not su muc as standards. There is bare minimum for soemthing to be called a tangerein correct. and iwould never call one of keelis breed CT's high yellow either. post a border line tang and post a pic of keelis. obviously anything in between the 2 is tangerine. im willing to bet that there is a level somewhere that a majority of us can agree upon. i just think there has to be. snows i dunno. we do have a grading ssytem in place already. but hopefully the LGR will help stop the mis marketing of a c- animals as b+. you get where im coming from. until Jan 07' its free. y not give it a shot and see how well it works.

Originally Posted by The NY Gecko

IMO its not su muc as standards. There is bare minimum for soemthing to be called a tangerein correct. and iwould never call one of keelis breed CT's high yellow either. post a border line tang and post a pic of keelis. obviously anything in between the 2 is tangerine. im willing to bet that there is a level somewhere that a majority of us can agree upon. i just think there has to be. snows i dunno. we do have a grading ssytem in place already. but hopefully the LGR will help stop the mis marketing of a c- animals as b+. you get where im coming from. until Jan 07' its free. y not give it a shot and see how well it works.

I agree Tom. But I also understand where Kelli & Jeremy are coming from. Both have put alot of work into their lines with no restrictions and no extra paper work or comp typing. And both have been sucessful in each own right. So it only makes sense for them to be apprehensive. But I think Steph has done a good job here explaining the processes of the whole thing and had good suggestions for some of the concerns. I will definately give it a try.