Terri Sommella Fire and Ice Dragons -- Nightmare

I'm deeply disturbed and disappointed by those statements.......

Originally Posted by PraiseEinstein

Hello. This is Lauren Scheller. Sorry about this confusion. The account Sunshine Dragons is the account for the company and is used strictly for posting advertisements. All of our names were on it, as the advertisements do not express any individual opinions. Bruce did not think about the fact that all of our names might come up under his personal post. We have a policy of not posting under the acct for the business. Sorry about any confusion. Those were Bruce's opinions and do not say how i feel about the situation. Thanks everyone

Unfortunately, it will be YOUR name that people remember...not Bruce's!
Throwing out odd bits of quotation that are irrevelant can be quite annoying...glad to see you distance yourself as much as possible !
greg

I think that is why sunstardragons went undergound and took their website offline. The lady seemed to really want to look like a top breeder by her close association with Terri, and then found out that Terri is not so popular these days. Terri was all she could talk about. Sadly, all the care information on her website was incorrect information that she learned straight from Terri! How can Terri keep changing her info, her policies,her morales, on a sale by sale basis, and still be so highly recognized? I am sure that she spends alot of money to get her name spread around as much as possible....I think that sunstar has only been breeding less than a year. The show I saw Cairo at she actually said that Terri told her it was the only Citrus in the states when she bought it as her first beardie, and that she would have babies to sell such as none other at the shows because no one else had citrus! I hated to see it, she seemed really nice but she was took for $1,000.00 for a really ordinary dragon with fairly plain offspring, and the fact that Terri claimed the genetic coloration as her own invention was ludicrious...

I am going to be a first-time beardie owner soon. I have been doing research for 6 months and I won't own my beardie until I feel I have a solid base of knowledge about them.

I am posting because the first site I found (6 months ago) was Fire and Ice. The pictures looked amazing! Then I continued my research. Over time, I became skeptical of Terri and my initial doubts arizing from a phone conversation with her have only been magnified by what I have read. I will not buy from Terri for many reasons, my mind is made up.

I recently communicated with Bruce about a female breeder he acquired because I am interested in one of her offspring. After reading his post, I am extremely reluctant to buy from him.

I think I will probably not buy from Sunshine Dragons now (as I had planned) because of his post.
Does anyone have information about Sunshine Dragons that may change my mind? Who is Bruce and does Lauren work for him or vice versa?

Thanks in advance for all feedback.

(By the way, I am still considering Kakadu, Daichu, and Dragon's Den)

Cashew

This is Bruce,

I am the owner, of SunshineDragons. Lauren helps to run and oversee the operation and makes decisions. She is the Salt of the earth. In signing the first thread ever on Fauna, I did not realize her name would come up under the company name. Stone me, I made a mistake again.

We made it a company policy never to post on BOI as for how things can get twisted, or mistinterpreted, and end up going on forever, in a defensive situation like this one now has.

I Broke policy without consulting the team that actually runs the Business. I don't clam to be perfect, or the most knowelgeabe, or the best. We do Claim to have high Morals, high Integrity, and honety.

Feel free to write and we will show you 100"s of comments, from customers, Breedrs, or Vendors in just the one year we have gone public out of th 10 we have been breeding.

We have been private Breeders for 10 years, breedeing and selling selected high grade, quality Dragons. Most important to us was the health of the Dragon, nevertheless our selection of morphs, is as good if not better than anyones. Last year we went public when we obtained the core of some of Chris Allens key Breeders Scar, Flame etc.

We have made mistakes, yet have always made every atempt to correct them, and make every transaction as stress, and anxiety Free as possible. In Ten years we have had less than 5 issues, and we believe we resolve all of them to the customers satisfaction, or certainly did our best to.

It amazes me, the lashing people recieve for not speaking up, or when they do speak up. Damned if you do, Damed if you don't. I guess if you don't march to the same beat, or have a different opinion of the crowds, you become a target.

Kakadu, Daichu, and Dragon's Den.Dragons by Nature, Mystical_Dragons are Quality Breeders we would reccomen them to anyone. Many of them are dealers for our cages, and we have a good relationship with them. We even list some on our links. Imagine that, listing some of the competition.

My comments on this Thread were not a judgement of what was done, and whether it was right or not. My comment is on the Bandwagon approach from one sided information, or possible half truths. When you respond, or become defensive things end up just perpetuating themselves regardless of the "Truth" just as now happened.

There Was a mention of us in this Thread about an issue by Blckcat, that had little to do with this issue. Yet even what was said was not entirely accurate.

After Blckcat had a Concern not only did we make the below offer, we sent her to a Breeder with high Integrity to explain the situation so she didn't think we were just "Snowing " her -Pun. read on, and then read back as to what was printed by the individual in her thread.

Blckcat... E-mail to us, and another Breeder.
"..wanted to let you know the snow arrived safe and sound. He's a lot larger then I expected, and I am very pleased. I'll keep you updated on how his coloring develops. I'm also looking into your caging.

Thanks,
Stef "
"..Bruce is a great guy! I do not even hint at a refund when I voiced my
concern about this dragon to him and he automatically offered it to me. I
had told him that I did not feel that was fair to him as the seller to give
me a full refund and allow me to keep my dragon. In his last email to me, he insisted that is the right thing to do.
Stef

Yes, I understand what you are saying. I agree, Bruce is a great guy. He's
done something in the bearded dragon "world" that others have not done and
has really stood out as a top notch breeder and someone I consider a
personal friend... and that's important to me in a reptile trade with a lot
of questionable people. Bruce is one of the handful of good people out
there that I consider friends and do business with.

Brandon

"...honestly, if more people had your morals and ethics, the reptile trade would be a lot better place to work and deal in. It's nice to know there are breeders out there that care a lot.

In a message dated 7/13/2004 3:55:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, brandon@dragonsbynature.com write.."

"..Bruce,
……….No problem… there will be many more to come… we feel very comfortable sending our customers to you for their bearded dragons. We have no doubt they will be well treated.
Warm Regards,
Andy
Director Of Internet Services
Big Apple Herpetological, Inc."

"......I think you did something wonderful for a family that may need some additional outlet .......I really appreciate your quick response to my question ......
P.S always appreciate that extra mile you go in answering my questions...gives me lots of info. so I don't have to bother you to ask again.
Teresa. (www.tbkdragons.com).."

"..… I’m impressed with the amount of time
you take to help people. That is very unusual in this business and I suppose in many others too.
Warm Regards,..."

"... thank you for you helpfull service. i have to say your one of the best companies i've dealt with before.

thank you, matt.."

"... I have been impressed the way you run it and your standards and that's something you don't see really... . taught me how to do things the right way and the wrong way. You guys do things the right way and i've heard a lot of good things and I think you guys are great for the reptile industry ………"

"...Bruce,

WOW!!!!!! That is real honorable of you. …& SunshineDragons. …………. Thank you so much, I'd be glad to take you up on your offer, I would love to do business with you in the future.

I really appreciate the efforts you've made to help correct this situation. ………..

Thank you once again for bring closure to this situation,

Khando Freeman"
“
"…..FYI. Lot’s of herper do refer and talk about Sunshine Dragons and Cages. ….”

Squinn
Reptile Magazine “

".....I HAVE ACTUALY HEARD ABOUT YOUR REP...FROM A FRIEND, WHEN I TOLD HIM WHERE THIS MALE WAS COMING FROM, . I AM SO EXCITED ABOUT HIM, AND I HAVE ENJOYED THIS CORESPONADANCE IMENSLY, AT THIS POINT YOU HAVE MY TRUST WHERE YOU COULD SELL ME THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE, I APRECIATE YOU DEAMING A REPONSABLE PERSON AND WORTHEY OF YOUR GIFT, I FEEL I AM GETTING A GIFT...I CANT EXPLAIN....."

"...Bobby adores the dragons! He couldn't have had a better birthday present. We took them to the vet and the vet said that they were both in very good condition. The vet also confirmed everything that you said with regard to their care. ......... We will continue to follow your care guidelines and call you as additional questions arise (which I'm sure will be many).
Thank you...we are so grateful.

Cynthia"


Bruce Kalish
Sunshinedragon@aol.com

If you would like to see 100's more please write. We pride ourselves on our service, honesty, and Integrity..

Now for the last time we will not post or respond to any Post again. Therefore say what you want, believe what you may, listen to the rumor mills, and there are other Great Breeders to choose from. We don't expect everyone to agree with us, or buy from us. We love what we do. It is not a business to us, yet a hobby. We Don't inbreed, or linebreed, and have over 50 Pets, that we selectively breed so as to not overbreed any, and burn them out.

HEART

It is only with the heart
that one can see rightly;
what is essential
is invisible to the eye.

- Antoine De Saint-Exupery

Have a little compassion for everyone.

Yes, you did offer me full refund on Nova. I do not recall whether or not I had posted that in this thread (and I'm not about to dig through 45 pages to find it - yuck!). I did not accept it, I felt that would be morally wrong of me. Neither was I willing to give him up for another.

What I do not accept is that I received a dragon that was not as pictured on your site. You showed pure white snows as representives for the hatchlings you had for sale. Nova, to this day, is as tan as ever. The little bugger is eatting his veggies better, and has a WONDERFUL personality. His case of pin worms has been treated, and though his stress marks are gone...His color hasn't changed...

I posted in comparison of the "Live and Learn" issue of not receiving a photo before purchase. Which is how Fire and Ice operates. Something I have learned from, and will never do again. I have noticed since my purchase, you do post pictures of your available dragons.

I, by the way, did end up purchasing a gorgeous Orange Snow from Brandon...Whom has the most wonderful coloring when she's half the size of Nova. I was very impressed with her. Nova has the better personality of the two, but she is very tiny and needs to get used to the idea of me not being interested in eatting her.

Bruce,

Thank you for your reply - I admire you for responding. I was very concerned when I read your post because I understood it to be in defense of Terri and her practices. I understand that not everything I read is true and that there are two sides to every story. I also understand that people make mistakes, and in my opinion, attempting to correct them is what is important.

I have read many posts on many different boards and the only consistently negative posts regarding a breeder relate to Fire and Ice and Terri. I'm not sure what has happened with the particular animals involved, but I am concerned about the lack of positive posts to support her and the lack of effort on her part to remedy the numerous situations I have read about. Maybe she has tried to remedy them and I don't know about it, but I have never seen posts from her with her explanation.

I have also read several posts by breeders that many others seem to think highly of, and these posts explain why the information on Terri's site is/was incorrect and potentially harmful to beardies.

I am further troubled by Terri's claims to be a breeder with over 15 years of experience and claims of creating the Citrus line when it appears that she has been breeding for maybe 3 years and she is taking credit for lines that others have created.

My concerns have been greatly alleviated by your response and I am going to look into Pyro's babies again now. I hope you understand my concerns and the panic I had when reading your post on this particular thread. I am new the bearded dragon world and this is a very big committment for me. I just want to make sure I am choosing a great breeder to buy from, and with so many reputable breeders, I don't want to risk buying from a breeder that I'm not sure of.

Thank you again, and sorry for the panic and the long response.

Cashew (Mischa Hepner in Arizona)

Originally Posted by cthulhu77

Unfortunately, it will be YOUR name that people remember...not Bruce's!
Throwing out odd bits of quotation that are irrevelant can be quite annoying...glad to see you distance yourself as much as possible !
greg

I Guess I set myself up for this

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is Bruce,

I am the owner, of SunshineDragons. Lauren helps to run and oversee the operation and makes decisions. She is the Salt of the earth. In signing the first thread ever on Fauna, I did not realize her name would come up under the company name. Stone me, I made a mistake again.

We made it a company policy never to post on BOI as for how things can get twisted, or mistinterpreted, and end up going on forever, in a defensive situation like this one now has.

I Broke policy without consulting the team that actually runs the Business. I don't clam to be perfect, or the most knowelgeabe, or the best. We do Claim to have high Morals, high Integrity, and honety.

Feel free to write and we will show you 100"s of comments, from customers, Breedrs, or Vendors in just the one year we have gone public out of th 10 we have been breeding.

We have been private Breeders for 10 years, breedeing and selling selected high grade, quality Dragons. Most important to us was the health of the Dragon, nevertheless our selection of morphs, is as good if not better than anyones. Last year we went public when we obtained the core of some of Chris Allens key Breeders Scar, Flame etc.

We have made mistakes, yet have always made every atempt to correct them, and make every transaction as stress, and anxiety Free as possible. In Ten years we have had less than 5 issues, and we believe we resolve all of them to the customers satisfaction, or certainly did our best to.

It amazes me, the lashing people recieve for not speaking up, or when they do speak up. Damned if you do, Damed if you don't. I guess if you don't march to the same beat, or have a different opinion of the crowds, you become a target.

Kakadu, Daichu, and Dragon's Den.Dragons by Nature, Mystical_Dragons are Quality Breeders we would reccomen them to anyone. Many of them are dealers for our cages, and we have a good relationship with them. We even list some on our links. Imagine that, listing some of the competition.

My comments on this Thread were not a judgement of what was done, and whether it was right or not. My comment is on the Bandwagon approach from one sided information, or possible half truths. When you respond, or become defensive things end up just perpetuating themselves regardless of the "Truth" just as now happened.

There Was a mention of us in this Thread about an issue by Blckcat, that had little to do with this issue. Yet even what was said was not entirely accurate.

After Blckcat had a Concern not only did we make the below offer, we sent her to a Breeder with high Integrity to explain the situation so she didn't think we were just "Snowing " her -Pun. read on, and then read back as to what was printed by the individual in her thread.

Blckcat... E-mail to us, and another Breeder.
"..wanted to let you know the snow arrived safe and sound. He's a lot larger then I expected, and I am very pleased. I'll keep you updated on how his coloring develops. I'm also looking into your caging.

Thanks,
Stef "
"..Bruce is a great guy! I do not even hint at a refund when I voiced my
concern about this dragon to him and he automatically offered it to me. I
had told him that I did not feel that was fair to him as the seller to give
me a full refund and allow me to keep my dragon. In his last email to me, he insisted that is the right thing to do.
Stef

Yes, I understand what you are saying. I agree, Bruce is a great guy. He's
done something in the bearded dragon "world" that others have not done and
has really stood out as a top notch breeder and someone I consider a
personal friend... and that's important to me in a reptile trade with a lot
of questionable people. Bruce is one of the handful of good people out
there that I consider friends and do business with.

Brandon

"...honestly, if more people had your morals and ethics, the reptile trade would be a lot better place to work and deal in. It's nice to know there are breeders out there that care a lot.

In a message dated 7/13/2004 3:55:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, brandon@dragonsbynature.com write.."

"..Bruce,
……….No problem… there will be many more to come… we feel very comfortable sending our customers to you for their bearded dragons. We have no doubt they will be well treated.
Warm Regards,
Andy
Director Of Internet Services
Big Apple Herpetological, Inc."

"......I think you did something wonderful for a family that may need some additional outlet .......I really appreciate your quick response to my question ......
P.S always appreciate that extra mile you go in answering my questions...gives me lots of info. so I don't have to bother you to ask again.
Teresa. (www.tbkdragons.com).."

"..… I’m impressed with the amount of time
you take to help people. That is very unusual in this business and I suppose in many others too.
Warm Regards,..."

"... thank you for you helpfull service. i have to say your one of the best companies i've dealt with before.

thank you, matt.."

"... I have been impressed the way you run it and your standards and that's something you don't see really... . taught me how to do things the right way and the wrong way. You guys do things the right way and i've heard a lot of good things and I think you guys are great for the reptile industry ………"

"...Bruce,

WOW!!!!!! That is real honorable of you. …& SunshineDragons. …………. Thank you so much, I'd be glad to take you up on your offer, I would love to do business with you in the future.

I really appreciate the efforts you've made to help correct this situation. ………..

Thank you once again for bring closure to this situation,

Khando Freeman"
“
"…..FYI. Lot’s of herper do refer and talk about Sunshine Dragons and Cages. ….”

Squinn
Reptile Magazine “

".....I HAVE ACTUALY HEARD ABOUT YOUR REP...FROM A FRIEND, WHEN I TOLD HIM WHERE THIS MALE WAS COMING FROM, . I AM SO EXCITED ABOUT HIM, AND I HAVE ENJOYED THIS CORESPONADANCE IMENSLY, AT THIS POINT YOU HAVE MY TRUST WHERE YOU COULD SELL ME THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE, I APRECIATE YOU DEAMING A REPONSABLE PERSON AND WORTHEY OF YOUR GIFT, I FEEL I AM GETTING A GIFT...I CANT EXPLAIN....."

"...Bobby adores the dragons! He couldn't have had a better birthday present. We took them to the vet and the vet said that they were both in very good condition. The vet also confirmed everything that you said with regard to their care. ......... We will continue to follow your care guidelines and call you as additional questions arise (which I'm sure will be many).
Thank you...we are so grateful.

Cynthia"


Bruce Kalish
Sunshinedragon@aol.com

If you would like to see 100's more please write. We pride ourselves on our service, honesty, and Integrity..

Now for the last time we will not post or respond to any Post again. Therefore say what you want, believe what you may, listen to the rumor mills, and there are other Great Breeders to choose from. We don't expect everyone to agree with us, or buy from us. We love what we do. It is not a business to us, yet a hobby. We Don't inbreed, or linebreed, and have over 50 Pets, that we selectively breed so as to not overbreed any, and burn them out.

HEART

It is only with the heart
that one can see rightly;
what is essential
is invisible to the eye.

- Antoine De Saint-Exupery

Have a little compassion for everyone

wow. someone delete some of these duplicate posts!

Originally Posted by blckkat

Yes, you did offer me full refund on Nova. I do not recall whether or not I had posted that in this thread (and I'm not about to dig through 45 pages to find it - yuck!). I did not accept it, I felt that would be morally wrong of me. Neither was I willing to give him up for another.

What I do not accept is that I received a dragon that was not as pictured on your site. You showed pure white snows as representives for the hatchlings you had for sale. Nova, to this day, is as tan as ever. The little bugger is eatting his veggies better, and has a WONDERFUL personality. His case of pin worms has been treated, and though his stress marks are gone...His color hasn't changed...

I posted in comparison of the "Live and Learn" issue of not receiving a photo before purchase. Which is how Fire and Ice operates. Something I have learned from, and will never do again. I have noticed since my purchase, you do post pictures of your available dragons.

I, by the way, did end up purchasing a gorgeous Orange Snow from Brandon...Whom has the most wonderful coloring when she's half the size of Nova. I was very impressed with her. Nova has the better personality of the two, but she is very tiny and needs to get used to the idea of me not being interested in eatting her.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess I set myself up. Bruce Kalish

Curious how you don't want to reread your own post!

We don't operate anything like Fire and Ice. That is like saying Kevin Dunne, or Sandfire operates like Fire and Ice as they don't show individual pictures. We now changed that not due to complaints, yet because it works better, and is more effective. We took it one step further by putting pictures and lineage of the parents there. We only went public within the last year, even though we have been breeding for ten years. The Web site is only a little over a year old. Give us a Break Yet>>>


Not the Point,

You weren't satisfied. I offered you a full refund and to keep the Dragon. Anyone, including Brandon knows that Snows are not pure. We turned you on to Brandon as I knew he had a variety of snows, at much higher prices and higher quality. As he mentioned you get what you pay for. I have no idea how we ended up in that thread when we offered you every option possible to correct your concern.

We should have been mentioned as a quality outfit that stands behind their product, offered a full refund so you can still get what you wanted, you could keep the dragon for Free, the Dragon to keep free or anything to satisfy you. You didn't want to return the dragon, therefore you must have grown attached to him. Just the opposite of the complaint about this thread, not living up to an written obligation. Ours wasn't even written it was good faith. Damned if you do Damned if you don't

Now you may understand why we wouldn't take anything written in a lynch mob mentality as serious, accurate, or even care. We do the best we can. What more do you or does anybody want.

People make mistakes. We will never let anyone question our integrity, honesty, Or good faith, Never!

It appears to me that People would rather be right than do what is right.

The 6 most important words in the English language are:

"I think I made a mistake".

Yet in the thread your post was not positive about all we did to attempt to satisfy you, just what went wrong. Like I said, these threads, and BOI people use to trash people with half of the story,. Instead of complimenting the people that go out of their way to satisfy a customer, or correct a mistake.We even offered you discounts on our cages as well, in addition to everything else, & you never mentioned that either.

In any event what did we have to do with what the Thread was about except jumping on the pile.

I just don't get it.

Bottom line, there was an Issue. We did our best to do anything you wanted to satisfy it. Brandon had a bigger variety of snows than us and I sent you to him with a full refund offer.

You didn't get what you thought you were getting from us. We offered all your money back so you could. You also could still keep the Dragon if you wanted and still go out and use your funds to find what you wanted. We even directed you to a breeder, which by the way, his snows weren't pure either..Orange tint,,which attracted you.. I didn't try to rip you off, and convince you of anything, just the opposite. Brandon had a better snow for your purposes and you imply that.

What else could we have done to satisfy you? Who would have done what we offered?

I just don't get the trashing whenever possible. We should have been mentioned for our efforts, service, and integrity, honesty, and efforts to satisfy you.. Instead of looking at all we did you pointed out the one thing you tried to relate to this tread. Many breeders do things different ways, and many the same.


Now you may understand why we wouldn't take anything written in a lynch mob mentality as serious, accurate, or even care. We do the best we can. What more do you or does anybody want.

People make mistakes. We will never let anyone question our integrity, honesty, Or good faith, Never!

It appears to me that People would rather be right than do what is right.

The 6 most important words in the English language are:

"I think I made a mistake".

Yet in the thread your post was not positive about all we did to attempt to satisfy you, just what went wrong. Like I said, these threads, and BOI people use to trash people with half of the story,. Instead of complimenting the people that go out of their way to satisfy a customer, or correct a mistake.We even offered you discounts on our cages, never mentioned that either.

In any event what did we have to do with what the Thread was about except jumping on the pile.

I just don't get it.

Bottom line, there was an Issue. I did my best to do anything you wanted to satisfy it. Brandon had a bigger variety of snows than us and I sent you to him with a full refund offer.

You didn't get what you thought you were getting from us. We offered all your money back so you could. You also could still keep the Dragon if you wanted and still go out and use your funds to find what you wanted. I even directed you to a breeder, which by the way, his snows weren't pure either..Orange tint,,which attracted you.. I didn't try to rip you off, and convince you of anything, just the opposite. Brandon had a better snow for your purposes and you imply that.

What else could we have done to satisfy you? Who would have done what we offered?

I just don't get the trashing whenever possible. We should have been mentioned for our efforts, service, and integrity, honest. First ,in your thread you mentined you didn't get to see or pick the dragon, now you say you didn't get what we showed you. Which is it. No Wonder you don't want to go back and read your threads. Your inconsistent.. Yet everyone knows Snowsand any morph change with each shed when youn, well anyone that knows about dragons.

Everyone know that Snow are not pute White, even you bought a snow from Brandon with orange in it, as you were atrracted to it. Why no complaint, it wan't pure White. I just don't get why people would rather complain than look at the positives that are happening.