The PROOF that venomoid snakes are not safe!`

Originally Posted by hhmoore

Honestly, Christian, your depiction of the way an error could be made is pretty pathetic.

I'm not belittling any vet's abilities, but to suggest that they'd have to be impaired, distracted, or half asleep in order to mess up is ridiculous...and makes a mockery of this dicussion. I doubt that Dr Sabatini would suggest that this is anything but an intricate procedure that requires not only the aforementioned intimate knowledge of the anatomy of the venom production/conduction system, but the skill to carry out precise, detailed excision of said system. Reports I have read indicate that it is relatively easy for even a knowledgeable veterinarian to either miss a little, or remove some muscle/tissue that is not part of the target. While removing a little extra is no great problem, except for the need for more cosmetic filler, missing a little could be all the difference in the world to the keeper.

Please don't take my quote out of context because that's ridiculous.

I hate when people take pieces of a quote to construct a statement. I said there is a greater possibility someone will buy a venomoid to swap the microchip than a licensed vet doing the surgery with their eyes closed. With that said, that's why I would require a legal liability release form if and only if i were a DVM. This was an example i was making and you are taking pieces to insult my intelligence, but the only once with a ridiculous statement is you trying to manipulate a quote to fit your needs.

Originally Posted by hhmoore

Honestly, Christian, your depiction of the way an error could be made is pretty pathetic.

I'm not belittling any vet's abilities, but to suggest that they'd have to be impaired, distracted, or half asleep in order to mess up is ridiculous...and makes a mockery of this dicussion. I doubt that Dr Sabatini would suggest that this is anything but an intricate procedure that requires not only the aforementioned intimate knowledge of the anatomy of the venom production/conduction system, but the skill to carry out precise, detailed excision of said system. Reports I have read indicate that it is relatively easy for even a knowledgeable veterinarian to either miss a little, or remove some muscle/tissue that is not part of the target. While removing a little extra is no great problem, except for the need for more cosmetic filler, missing a little could be all the difference in the world to the keeper.

Rather than quoting me, why don't you find the facts and link to the cobra incident you mentioned earlier? or how about some links to the reports you claimed you have read? Can you share those with the Fauna community?

Originally Posted by devenomized

Rather than quoting me, why don't you find the facts and link to the cobra incident you mentioned earlier? or how about some links to the reports you claimed you have read? Can you share those with the Fauna community?

It's not as if I can ask the person in question - he moved out of the state at least 10 years ago, and as of the last time I inquired about him, none of our mutual acquaintances had contact info.
As for the articles/reports I read - I'll be happy to look for them...but there are no guarantees that I'll find them. I probably should start cataloging things like that so I can find them when the subject comes up at a later date.

Originally Posted by bermrandy

THE GLANDS AND SUCH ARE REMOVED AND REPLACED WITH MAN MADE MATERIAL THERES NO WAY IT CAN BE VENOMOUS AGAIN PERIOD..

That is funny Randy, so the video clearly presents itself as a farce, according to your logic. 2 out of 3 voids have venom, I will take my chances with the Ferrari.

Oh yeah, turn off the caps lock please, no need for yelling, we all can read.

Harold probably read it on Tanith Tyrr's site. Tanith is one of them people that go all out for the reptiles. i am not joking she has rescued more venomous snakes then anyone I know.

here is her site
Tanith Tyrr
Snake Getters
www.snakegetters.com

I know her vet did the research surgery and put out that it is not as easy as some say. and gland can be missed.

I can't believe the argument is still going on. After all agreed that physicians and vets make errors, even the best of them, that should have been the end of it.
But then again, in my readings, I seem to remember that people passionately argued at one time that the world was flat.

People will defend the indefensible, I suppose it is human nature. But sadly, there are consequences, and sometimes it is the purchasers of voids not the producers, who may pay the price and a terrible price it is.

So let me see if I am reading this right.
Vipers cannot regenerate even if tissue is missed but elapids can?
Sabatini micro chips his voids?
Gabbys are freehandled? The fangs on those snakes are HUGE and could cause serious damage whether or not they inject venom.
Why void a snake if you cannot guarentee the surgery and state they should be treated as an intact snake? Seems to me that if you follow your own advice, there is no need for the surgery in the first place.

Originally Posted by SPJ

So let me see if I am reading this right.
Vipers cannot regenerate even if tissue is missed but elapids can?
Sabatini micro chips his voids?
Gabbys are freehandled? The fangs on those snakes are HUGE and could cause serious damage whether or not they inject venom.
Why void a snake if you cannot guarentee the surgery and state they should be treated as an intact snake? Seems to me that if you follow your own advice, there is no need for the surgery in the first place.

What I am taking from his postings are he does not want to hurt the business of Sabatini. See if Sabatini was really worried about being sued he could put in his paper work that it has been seen that venomoids repair gland that is missed to become venomois again. But this would also lose him business and he knows this. that is why it is a dance around it to word it were it hides this fact. But leaves him in the clear.

It is simple Sabatini is human and not perfect. the said thing is that it may take a snake he has done the surgery to kiling a huan for him to rethink his selling ways.

I know that voids are not going away but at the same time a vet and a supporter that wants the FACTS out should include these important facts that a vet is human and can make a mistake............

Originally Posted by hhmoore

It's not as if I can ask the person in question - he moved out of the state at least 10 years ago, and as of the last time I inquired about him, none of our mutual acquaintances had contact info.
As for the articles/reports I read - I'll be happy to look for them...but there are no guarantees that I'll find them. I probably should start cataloging things like that so I can find them when the subject comes up at a later date.

Thanks Mr. Moore. I would like to see them if you can find them.