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Old 03-21-2004, 11:38 PM   #51
Neil Gubitz
Adrian.... I was referring to these four paragraphs you wrote....

----------------------

....#1 sounds good at first glance, but from a practical standpoint it would not work.

You are talking about having to work with a particular hot species 3 hours per day every single day just to meet a minimum 1000 hour per year requirement.

1 year consisting of no less than 1000 hours would insinuate that you would actually prefer that people spent more than 1000 hours in that one year? So that means.... you would like to see what.... 4, 6, 8-hour days every single day working with a particular species?

Even at a minimum 1000 hours it would be impractical for anyone (with a life and a job) to meet that requirement in a single year's time unless the person happened to work a paying job in an animal industry that actually worked with hots on a daily basis and happened to include the species that person might be trying to get a permit for.

-------------------------------

I might have missed your point, that's what I thought you meant.... sorry....

Realistically, all you would have to do is work 3 hours a day (seven days a week) for a year and you would have your 1000 hours.... if you worked at a herp store as a job, you could do it in less than 6 months....

It IS a very hard and tedious process, but well worth it in the long run....

BTW.... you must have missed whatever "last paragraph" you were speaking of, because there is NO WAY you can edit your posts on this site, unless Rich changed something very recently??....

Neil
 
Old 03-21-2004, 11:46 PM   #52
HouseOfSerpents
Needless to say, if there are no regulations in PA regarding venomous snakes now, there will be soon if this blows up.

We all must remain diligent to a "T". Its incidents like this that give all those interested in further regulations and anti-herp rhetoric another case to use against the keeping of reptiles. This should serve as a reminder to all as to what can happen that one time.
 
Old 03-21-2004, 11:49 PM   #53
WebSlave
After much consideration and reflection on this thread, as well as the apparent direction it is now headed, I felt that the thread is really not relevant material for the BOI. Instead, I felt that moving this thread into the Venomous general discussion forum was in the best interests of most of us here.

Sorry if it confused anyone having it vanish like it did from the BOI.
 
Old 03-22-2004, 06:15 AM   #54
Mustangrde1
The Laws of Florida I posted were NOT proposed they are the exact laws. Something may have been missed in the copy and paste the converter from PDF to HTML does that on occasion.

As to the comment on not being able to do it in a year Both my wife and I were able to do it holding down Jobs at the time and volunteering after or before them. It is possible it takes dedication and the will and want to do so.

The laws are tough here for a reason. The Inspections are done and the officers who do them are very complete with making sure you abide by them. It is well wourth it though It has checks and balances through the whole process. You Have to be trained which means with an experianced handler. Safety check . You have to be inspected. Safety check.

As to moving to this state and wanting to keep your snake. All you need to do is before moving send them a copy of your out of state license or experiance before hand. Have your inspection withen 30 days of moving here and your good to go. I know several people who have done this with out a problem.

Scott Bice
 
Old 03-22-2004, 10:07 AM   #55
ms_terese
Neil:

It wouldn't be suing, it would be filing criminal charges for either forgery or unauthorized use of a credit device, depending on whether or not the kid signed his mother's name or his own. It's up to the DA to determine if the child would be charged as a juvenile or as an adult, but most felonies committed after the age of 16 1/2 are reviewed to determine whether it qualified to be filed as an adult charge. However, most non-violent crimes are kept in the juvenile court system.

I'm not sure how it worked with your customer and her husband, but I went rounds on this issue twice with one of my foster sons, and the credit card company told me then that they had instituted that policy to keep down the number of chargebacks from feuding relatives.
 
Old 03-22-2004, 12:52 PM   #56
herpetological
I know this is going a bit off the origional topic however, I think that has been addressed. The rules impossed by Florida I have to agree with 100%. The fees have even increased recently. The rules for permiting are there for several reasons..... They discourage under age collectors, novelty collectors, inexperienced handlers etc. They also, insure the safety of the general public by enforcing cage requirements. In addition the inspections can insure that the specimens are being cared for properly. The only persons complaining are those who are not serious about the venomous species they wish to work with. It's a win , win situation. It gives the public assurance, the keepers a method of gaining experience before possesion and again, insures the proper care of said venomous species. The alternative is no possesion!!!!!!!! If you are coming from out of state(As scott mentioned) and have documentation of venomous experience you do not need to fulfill the 1000 hour or 1 year requirements.
Also, if this law were adopted in other states they would "granfather in" any current hot keepers. At least that is the way it has been done with new laws here. It's not as difficult to get the accredation as you would think. I've sign off on at least 12 people over the years. The only questionable accredation part is in regards to a "class" substituting for hours?????
 
Old 03-22-2004, 02:49 PM   #57
Cruciform
culpability in the eyes of the law

Steve,

Since I'm not a regular poster here my opinion probably holds less weight than those you know, but there is one piece of advice I hope you will take to heart:

Cease any and all conversation about the issue on these or any other boards until after a decision has been rendered by the courts.

If the mother has a good lawyer, they've already got someone googling for your name and anything you admit or bring up in writing on these threads they will be able to use against you. That includes the legal culpability of selling to a minor while knowing that the waiver was null and void, and the parental guardian wasn't present.

The purpose of the suit will be to assess blame. If the court assigns 90% of the blame to them and 10% to you, then you still have to pay that 10%, and it could add up to millions if that's what they push for.

So keep quiet, advise your lawyer about this thread (as the plaintiff's lawyer may spring it on him), and be very, VERY careful in future business dealings.

Remember, as a vendor you have the right to refuse to sell to a customer.

Good luck,
Mike W.
 
Old 03-22-2004, 05:47 PM   #58
Seamus Haley
The legalities aside, getting back a bit to one of the points I addressed sideways in my first response...

I am getting REALLY SICK of the lack of consumer competence displayed these days. Seems like society has decided that people are no longer responsible for their own dumbass mistakes when using products they decided to purchase and screw around with.

This snake situation is no different than whatever moron went and used their hair dryer in the shower, so now they all have warning stickers on them.

If a consumer is too stupid to use a product correctly and in a manner which doesn't get themselves killed, they're too stupid to own the product (or live, as the case may be). Let them take themselves out for the betterment of the entire species... the court system in this country needs to stop wasting time and resources protecting idiots from themselves and punishing corporations because they didn't have the foresight to really just how dumb some people are.

This is not a situation where an otherwise harmless item is defective or contained a toxic material and needed to be recalled... it's a situation where some brainless little sack of crap bought a hot snake that he didn't know a damn thing about, probably telling Steve the whole time that he was experienced and had other hot snakes and didn't need to know anything about it's care and handling... then gets it home and freehandles it because he hasn't got the brains not to. While I'm glad his injuries weren't more severe in that it would have just been more problems for everyone involved, there's a part of me that really wishes he'd lost his damn arm just to teach him a lesson.

Modern parents won't let their kids make mistakes on their own. They seem to be denied the right to the learning process that normal human beings were allowed to go through and they haven't got any cuts, scrapes, bruises, stomach aches, headaches, torn clothing, wet shoes or concussions from falling out of trees... They have got this terrible undeserved sense of self righteous stupidity though. When they're finally allowed some kind of autonomy and do something dumb, rather than saying to themselves "Gee, that was no good I better not do it again." they look at everyone but themselves, searching for someone to blame. People have actually grown into adulthood with this kind of attitude and it sickens me to the core.

I really need to get myself a unibomber style shack someplace and just avoid the rest of humanity, for their own safety.
 
Old 03-22-2004, 06:02 PM   #59
Vince
this is nothing even close to what your talking about. this kid bought the snake becuse he thought it was cool. and the seller did not seem to have a problem selling it to him. yeah he could of been telling the seller all day long he had tons of experiance with them but come on man how much experence can a 17 year old have with hot snakes. stop getting mad, this is exactly what should be happening. who in there right mind sells a snake like this to a teenager useing his moms credit card.
 
Old 03-22-2004, 06:09 PM   #60
Vince
and wishing this kid should of lost his arm becuse he had a snake he should of never been alowd to purchase to begin with is pretty patheticly low.
 

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