Customer service

So I bought a snake from another vendor at a show as a orange dream pin female. I ended up deciding that I would put it in a open display at a show and if it sold it sold. Well it did sell for $500. A month goes by and I get a call from the buyer who says a couple people told him that its a desert enchi pin. After a little research I find out he is right. We had a little heated discussion because of mention of ruining my reputation before I even told him what I was going to. Ultimately I bought it back, drove over an hour to him because he did nothing wrong, I gave him a 700-800g Fire yb female for free because of the mix up. The guy I bought it from is buying her back for what I paid. I believe that is a stand up way of doing business.

Now anyone that's been on here for awhile knows I like getting everyone to talk and give opinions. Take either side in this one and give your input, or both.

I have a snake listed let's say a orange dream clown. You contact me and decide you want it to replace your clown.....males. I sell it to you for $1500. You get it and it looks brighter than clowns so you sell yours and prepar to breed him that season. You breed him and produce no orange dreams. You contact me, we discuss that it was sold to me as that and that the guy you got it from says that's what it is. After a little more talking you agree to try one more season. Fast forward a year and you breed it and again no orange dreams. You contact me and I say I will get ahold of the guy I got it from but I will make it right.

Now what is right? Do I give you your money back? Do I give you credit for the amount on other snakes I have? Do you ship the snake back, or keep because of the problems? Do you expect something for the lost clutches? What makes this right and fair? What's expecting too much or what's doing too little? Do we handle it first hand, or wait for the other guy?

Speak up people, this helps people understand each other and how to solve sitsuations before they happen. I know after my mix up, I look at what I sell way differently. If there is any doubt it is sold as not having that gene and being a possible. Anytime There is a 4 or greater gene animal where it looks like it is there, the gene in question is "presumed" due to visual differences on examples where it is not present. This was weird to me when I bought a multigene snake four or five years ago and was told a gene was presumed. It ended up being there, and now I understand why it's done that way.

Originally Posted by Randy F

Do we handle it first hand, or wait for the other guy?

If you sold a critter as an orange dream clown, you are warranting that is what it is, if it is not, you must take care of the situation with your buyer, and then if you want you can go after the person that sold the snake to you.
Your buyer, in my opinion, may ask at the very least for the difference in value of what he has, and what he would have had if the snake was really an orange dream clown, and for a measure of lost profits.
However, since I am not acquainted with the genetics of orange dreams, is there any substantial possibility that your customer 's snake is what you sold it as, and he is simply the victim of bad luck?

In your actual transaction, I think you more than made up for the error.
....

In the example you give, there is always the chance that the buyer simply had terrible luck, at hitting the odds, but I would go ahead and treat it as the buyer not getting what he/she paid for.

The seller needs to make things right, with the buyer, first. It also needs to be made right, with the buyer, regardless of whether, or not, the person, who sold you (the seller) the misidentified snake, makes things right with you.
After (or even during) taking care of the buyer, you (the seller) can contact the person, who sold you the misidentified snake, to seek remedy for yourself.
These are two separate transactions where one does not affect the other.

Personally, I wouldn't go too overboard. At the least end, the buyer should be made "whole", from time of sale/purchase, by giving a full refund and getting the snake back.
Other options could be a refund of price difference (between what the snake is vs. what it was supposed to be) if buyer wishes to keep the snake, or giving the buyer a snake of higher value in exchange for the return of the snake, or giving another snake (free of charge) while allowing the buyer to keep the snake he/she purchased (should he/she wish to keep it), or some other recompense. Perhaps do as you did, with the actual transaction that you had with the person who purchased what you thought to be an Orange Dream Pin, by giving a refund and a gift snake in exchange for the return of the snake originally purchased (the gift snake, of course, for the buyer's troubles).
Give some options and allow the buyer to choose which offer, at making things right, he/she prefers.

I wouldn't worry about any offspring that the buyer produced with the snake purchased from you (the seller). This is because, regardless of what was produced, the offspring would have some sort of monetary value on top of having been made "whole", on original transaction, by you. Plus, the buyer agreed to try one more breeding.

I agree with the above. You where fair in this case. But...

You need to tell them that you did not produce the animal. That you bought the animal as X and trust that person. I know that makes selling it harder, but it is good to warn the customer.

The customer, when they figure out it is not what it was sold as, will figure you where taken too. It would help defuse anger later.

But I know that a lot of dealers will not tell you resold animals unless you force it out of them.

Originally Posted by Pasodama

In the example you give, there is always the chance that the buyer simply had terrible luck, at hitting the odds, but I would go ahead and treat it as the buyer not getting what he/she paid for.

so in this case I used orange dream because not dealing with this gene I missed it in my mix up, so someone else could too. so in any dom/codom case, what is bad odds? in het to het it is possible to miss in a 8 egg clutch, but in a visual to het or dom/codom? breed a pastel to a normal and get 8 normals? a buddy bought a pinstripe het vpi axanthic and asked if I would breed it to one of my visual vpi axanthic spiders....9 eggs (4 spinners, 2 spiders, 1 pinstripe, 2 het vpi axanthics). bad odds....9 eggs that 5 times the female passed pinstripe but not 1 axanthic? Possible? Mix ups/sexed wrong happen but at what point do you call it "your bad?"

Personally I'd just say screw it, and really can't blame anyone when something doesnt prove. Snakes move hands and breeders so often it's hard to put blame on any one person in my opinion. Unless you believe that person was purposely trying to swindle you. When it comes to multigene animals and hets, it's always a gamble.

Ok first you know I like you Jessie

So by what I am reading it clears a lot up for me. I have a bunch of super pastel butter het ghosts, super pastel lessers, goldblush mojaves, and such but have not wanted to pair them with my 4 gene males because if I make a bel I don't know what's in it. So your saying it's cool if I breed one and sell you a pastel lesser butter enchi pin calico female and in a few years you breed it and it's a lesser butter only?

I think with as many people will try and sell their animals as hets knowing they aren't even 50% hets, there has to be some accountability. If not I have a bunch of snakes that are het pied, het clown, het vpi axanthic, het albino, het puzzle, het desert ghost because I threw all my snakes in one big orgy and I assume they are good so start bidding at $40,000 for pastel oh (octohets, some are mean so they are het for hermaphrodite so they can go f**k themselves). Now where everyone is hopefully laughing, it is still serious because without accountability and standards you will get a boi with a bunch of angry people......crap too late!

Lol I see what your saying Randy.
BUT I still think your accountable for your own purchase, if you don't do the research on the morph, or have any doubts then ask questions. If I dont know a gene (lots of one's I haven't heard of are popping up lately) then I usually ask a good amount of questions if I'm interested, but that's usually me. But if you buy a Het, there is always a chance that a mix up could have happened, or someone somewhere was lying about the exact genetics. But personally I think, maybe, I can tell the difference between a pastel butter and a pastel butter calico vector nanny clown camel toe ball python, just saiyan lol
All in good fun Randy lol. But I can say, how you ended up handling the situation, was fantastic

no man, this isn't my situation....that's handled. I am using orange dream because I goofed on that. I always use me because no one can get hurt feelings if I use someone that could be assumed is them.

ok new snake that will make it a bit easier.......a orange dream axanthic. Since there is no yellow pigment all you can do is take the sellers word....now you have made zero orange dreams when bred to spiders. it is obvious when a spider is a orange dream spider but you make none.

Originally Posted by Randy F

I have a bunch of super pastel butter het ghosts, super pastel lessers, goldblush mojaves, and such but have not wanted to pair them with my 4 gene males because if I make a bel I don't know what's in it. So your saying it's cool if I breed one and sell you a pastel lesser butter enchi pin calico female and in a few years you breed it and it's a lesser butter only?

No, you sell it as a BEL but let the buyer know that it could possibly have the other genes in it. A friend of mine had a BEL from a lesser x pastave pairing, he called it a BEL possible pastel since he couldn't tell if it had pastel or not.