David Van Houten, Logan Enterprises. Use extreme CAUTION!

I hate to write negative posts, but I feel that this post is needed to possibly save others from making a mistake.
I purchased a 100% het albino baby ball python from David Van Houten, Logan Enterprises in Oct, 2002 from an ad he had on Kingsnake. I requested he send me a pictured certificate with the snake to verify my snakes genetics. I did receive the snake and the certificate. I bred the female last yr. to a proven het albino male and the female produced 8 normal babies. I contacted David Van Houten and informed him. He assured me the snake was a het that he had produced using an albino male.
This yr. I bred the female to an albino male, the pairing produced 8 normal babies.
I contacted David and told him I felt he "scammed" me and I would like a refund. He apparently does not give refunds and does not have any guarantee regarding the genetics. I think if this was truly a 100% het he would have jumped at the chance to reacquire her for the price of a baby, but he does not seem so inclined. He did offer up some references to prove his integrity. I contacted a couple of them and they pretty much said they would not deal with him again. I realize she could possibly be a het. but also feel that David would have "bought" her back if she was. After all, isn't an adult proven 100% het. albino female worth more than $600?

Did his "references" give reason as to why they would not deal with him anymore?

Did his "references" give reason as to why they would not deal with him anymore?

Yes they did, mostly character issues. Only 2 of them ever contacted me, but they both stated they would not deal with him again.

I agree with you, if you bred her twice with no albinos being produced twice in a row something is wrong.What does the documents say if anything about guarantees? It seems to me we might have another black-eye added to the reptile world.Also i am sorry to read that this happened to you.

What does the documents say if anything about guarantees?

"hatched out 7/02 and is the offspring of an albino male bred to a normal female ball python, therefore carrying the albino gene".
This is the statement from David Van Houten on the certificate with a picture of the ball python which I received in 02

Nothing about guarantees, I probably just took for granted that she was guaranteed.

Originally Posted by Casey Hulse

I contacted David and told him I felt he "scammed" me and I would like a refund. He apparently does not give refunds and does not have any guarantee regarding the genetics.

No guarantee or refund sounds like he doesn't want to stay in business much longer. $600 dollars refunded to you would have been a better investment then any interest he could make on that money.

I missed the link below during my first search on David because his name was spelled wrong. Interesting thread.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...ad.php?t=27517

Thanx for posting the link Dennis!

Casey,

Ill agree , 2 years in a row , 8 egg clutches , and once being bred by a visual albino and no Albinos! There is very very very little chance that it is a het , idont think anyone has that bad of luck.

From what I have heard and know , Loagan Enterprises deals a lot of imports and other high end BP's for Ian G. So this snake could have been a mix up then with another. But no excuse , he should still back up what he sold you. I hope it works out though , 2 years in a row of breeding ir , is a lot of time......


Derek Federico

Originally Posted by Casey Hulse

He apparently does not give refunds and does not have any guarantee regarding the genetics. I think if this was truly a 100% het he would have jumped at the chance to reacquire her for the price of a baby, but he does not seem so inclined. He did offer up some references to prove his integrity. I contacted a couple of them and they pretty much said they would not deal with him again. I realize she could possibly be a het. but also feel that David would have "bought" her back if she was. After all, isn't an adult proven 100% het. albino female worth more than $600?

Ya, there's still a possibility that this snake is het. I have had more unlikely outcomes happen. The "odds" calculated on those things presume "all other things being equal." But if, for example, an individual has a "bad chromosome" it could be much less (or more) likely to throw the desired gametes. I have a female cornsnake who has produced about 115 male and 5 female offspring. I did raise and breed one of her female offspring and she also threw a large clutch containing only one female. :scatter:

Anyway, I would think someone would at least attempt to "make good" on it. Whether or not someone says they "don't guarantee" the genetics, providing a certificate stating that it's het is a guarantee of some sort or another, last time I checked.