Inbreeding

Originally Posted by Neverland Dragons

I am really disappointed that the original thread on silkbacks was locked without many of the questions being answered. I do understand why and it was heading in a totally unproductive direction.

I tried to ask questions that I thought were important and remain diplomatic. Many of the questions posed here were posed in the previous thread. I tried to point out that there were differences in husbandry (not better or worse, just different) and I received a reply with a bunch of subtle and not so subtle insults.

My main concern is, how inbred are these animals? And, if they have only been around a year or so, how can anyone possibly state there are no genetic problems with them? The honest answer to many of the questions should probably be, "I don't know." How related were to two leatherbacks that produced the first silkbacks? And for goodness sake, when was the first silkback hatched out? I asked that question at least three times. Was it in 2006, like Dachiu posted on their site? If so, the breeder himself would only have limited knowledge of how a captive environment, breeding and other factors affect this mutation. More importantly, there may be genetic issues that just have not had to time to show up in offspring.

To me, it is irresponsible and self serving ($) to go full speed ahead with this project with so little information known. Now, it is possible that Alessandro knows much more, but he sure has not answered the questions that would help us to understand that. So, either there is a language barrier and he does not understand what we are asking or he knows the people will not like his answers so he is remaining silent. He also just may not want to answer the questions, in which case he should just say he does not want to share that info. He came on that thread basically saying as long as people played nice he would answer questions. People were being respectful and trying to find answers. He then disappeared and people assumed he split and was avoiding the forum to answer the questions being posed. I do not know the truth to that, but I would hope, that if he wanted to help the community understand this mutation, he would have answered more of the questions. He has the right to not share any info, but by doing so, he leaves it open for people to make assumptions, and that is usually always worse than what the actual truth is.

exactly! when asked the hard questions he got defensive no matter how nicely we asked them.there are so many contradictions on husbandry,fragility and when and how the silkbacks came about.there is a person here that has the answers but decides to lurk instead of answer.to me and many other ppl this is an admission of guilt

Hello,

You are right about that! Wait, don't ALL dragon supposedly have the Adenovirus? We have seen that wasn't true.
However, if this keeps up with the inbreeding, they sure will all have the capability of being able to "catch or transmit" the adenovirus without even having a chance of being able to fight it off. It is very sad.
I think the coccidia issue is the same type of thing as well.
No, Australia simply does not have these types of problems. Adenovirus is nonexistent over there, because they do not inbreed like we do, & they properly quarantine animals whereas here, most people do not.

Tracie

Originally Posted by Drache613

Hello,

What if aliens came down, & started inbreeding us, to get all of us to only have 3 arms, because they thought it looked cool?

Wait a minute...how many arms did we start out with, lol? Because I only have two. But being a busy mom, I was hoping that perhaps the aliens could add a few arms, thus increasing my quality of life...

Jamie

Originally Posted by whiskersmom

I've not read where Australia is having a problem with BD's dying off from Adenovirus, so is it because of the inbreeding that everyone keeps bringing up to develop color that has possibly made this virus so strong in captive breds?

I think it's highly possible that we've weakened their systems by inbreeding to the point that they can't fight off the virus, not to mention coccidia, parasites, etc.

I've not read (or heard) about people having problems in the U.S. with mass amounts a dragons dying from adenovirus. In fact, I don't know of one single person who actually knows that adenovirus was the cause of a mass die-off. I'd love to hear from these people. Because according to some of the people here, this is a PLAGUE. We should be hearing about this everywhere by now!

Jamie

Originally Posted by Valley Dragons

I've not read (or heard) about people having problems in the U.S. with mass amounts a dragons dying from adenovirus. In fact, I don't know of one single person who actually knows that adenovirus was the cause of a mass die-off. I'd love to hear from these people. Because according to some of the people here, this is a PLAGUE. We should be hearing about this everywhere by now!

Jamie

Evidently, you missed the posts by both Wendy and I. Either that or you're one of the ones that believes we killed them with our husbandry.

Nobody said anything about hey, why don't you tell us how important you think Adenovirus is. WE KNOW how important it is. WE LIVE IT.

So if you want to spout crap about how insignificant it is, you might want to do it to people who might believe you.

Originally Posted by Saladragon

Evidently, you missed the posts by both Wendy and I. Either that or you're one of the ones that believes we killed them with our husbandry.

Nobody said anything about hey, why don't you tell us how important you think Adenovirus is. WE KNOW how important it is. WE LIVE IT.

So if you want to spout crap about how insignificant it is, you might want to do it to people who might believe you.

I've questioned the people involved, and I get evasive answers. I find it interesting that the dragons were not really thoroughly tested for other causes of death by a trained reptile vet (at least that was what I have been told by at least one of the people involved). Adenovirus was found - but what evidence is their that adeno was the cause of death? That's like finding someone dead, doing a few random tests, finding a cold sore, and assuming that the person died of herpes simplex 1. I for one prefer to base my opinions on facts not assumptions.

Jamie

Originally Posted by Saladragon

Evidently, you missed the posts by both Wendy and I. Either that or you're one of the ones that believes we killed them with our husbandry.

Two breeders with problems in their colony do not make for a plague. Come on guys! Lets have it right now! Who has proof? Lets hear from the masses who have had their dragons die from adeno. Lets get it all out in the open for everyone to see. Lets hear from the vets involved. I am sure that they are working closely with you to control this plague - so lets have them come forward, as they are the knowlegable ones.

Oh, wait - Bruce already tried this approach, and there were no masses that came forward...so where are they?

Jamie

Originally Posted by Saladragon

Evidently, you missed the posts by both Wendy and I. Either that or you're one of the ones that believes we killed them with our husbandry.

How are you so certain that husbandry was not a factor?

all the experts who are studying adeno say DO NOT BREED THEM ! what more do you want?

Originally Posted by mikey

How are you so certain that husbandry was not a factor?

these ppl have great husbandry practices and keep sterile environments for their beardies,myself included.that is how we are certain!