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Old 06-27-2003, 06:32 PM   #1
diablohogs
Question rusty pacific gopher?

i have this spot that i goto that is loaded with pacific gophers. well a while back i caught a pacific (?) gopher from the same spot, that was pretty different (i will post a pic when i get home from work). now, i've had/seen many pacific gopher snakes throughout my life but this one appeared almost hypomelanistic, it has rusty red blotches, an almost patternless belly with pink coloration, and little or no black. HOWEVER it does have the black tongue. i dunno... i guess i'm putting the carriage before the horse here but ultimately i'd like to find out what it is that i have because i'm tired of calling it "the cool looking gopher snake i caught". maybe its an intergrade, or its just not a pacific at all... maybe, but maybe isn't good enough, know what i mean. so i will post a pic when i get home and hopefully we can get to the bottom of this. any input would be great.

chad elmore
http://www.diablosnakefarm.com
 
Old 06-28-2003, 12:06 PM   #2
diablohogs
Question here it is

here's the picture... please lemme know what you think.
Attached Images
 
 
Old 06-28-2003, 12:07 PM   #3
diablohogs
and one more

heres a close up of his head.
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Old 06-29-2003, 06:12 PM   #4
diablohogs
Red face matter of fact

Well considering Pituophis c. catenifer are the only gopher snakes that are SUPPOSED to be in this area you can see where i might think that but after i did a little research i believe that it is just a nice looking Sonoran Gopher.

Pituophis c. affinis 45 miles from San Francisco...? well seeing as you found one like it, that means there's more than just the one i found. Has anyone ever heard of affinis in norcal? i'm pretty sure thats what i have... unless someone believes otherwise...and can prove it.
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Old 08-26-2003, 02:26 PM   #5
Shaun Roberson
Definitely NOT a Sonoran; pattern is that of a Pacific, but yeah, a very cool, different looking Pacific. Beauty.
 
Old 08-26-2003, 02:43 PM   #6
diablohogs
Question still wondering

i was hoping for a more specific response but its nice to get any feedback. thanks.
 
Old 08-27-2003, 12:18 AM   #7
Shaun Roberson
Well,...

see how the blotches have a rounded look at mid-body? and there is a definite break between the dorsal and lateral blotches on the first 6 inches or so of its body? It's kind of hard to describe, you can just tell by looking.
 
Old 08-27-2003, 01:27 PM   #8
diablohogs
Red face but is it a hypo?

thanks again for the feedback. basically i was hoping it was a genetic color phase or mutation and now i can confirm that is probably the case. my only question really is:
is it a unique color phase or a common one?
or
Is it a hypomelanistic pacific gopher?
thanks in advance for any further assistance in this matter.
chad elmore
diablo snake farm
 
Old 08-29-2003, 03:24 PM   #9
Seamus Haley
Ever hear of phenotypical elasticity?

There's a slight variation in the appearance of every animal, some species are simply capable of developing a more dramatic difference or a more visually obvious one.

This trend that tries to pin every single odd colored scale or wierd looking snake as being a new genetic morph is doing nothing more than sending the industry down the toilet and giving crooks and shady dealers a chance to rip people off.

Chad, I'm pretty sure you already know that I have no respect whatsoever for you, your intelligence or your work. You produce hybrid mutts without even a second's thought given to the potential results once they're out of your hands, you have proven on another thread that you have no understanding of basic biology, mendelian genetics or any of the terms and phrases used when discussing reptile phenotypes...

But fishing around to try and stick a label on this thing is lower than I even expected from you.

See all that dark brown all over the snake?

It's not hypomelanistic.

It may be a localized breeding population that has developed a slightly different color pattern due to semi-isolation from other breeding groups but the most it could be labeled as then is a locale specific animal (Much like you get with say... alterna) and the pattern isn't a simple recessive. There's also a slim chance that you have located an area of subspecific intergradiation and that the animal(s) you found aren't pure subspecies (By the definition of a species, these crosses are naturally occuring). Have you tried doing a scale count to determine exactly what it is that you've got there? Visual markings are the obvious clues but in an animal that was found outside the natural range for a pure subspecific animal with a minor deviation to it's appearance, it's worth double checking.

Just a couple questions...

Isn't field collection without the appropriate permits illegal in California?

Heck, isn't possesion of a native species without paperwork proving that it's CB also illegal?

Have you got the needed permit(s) to field collect?

What god-awful monstrosity are you planning on creating with it once it reaches breedable age? After you determine exactly what and why it is what it is, I'm betting that you'll try to make it breed with your dog since you have no respect whatsoever for biology as a STUDY of the natural world.
 
Old 09-01-2003, 12:05 AM   #10
Shaun Roberson
I'd say not hypo, but...

Based on the amount of brown it has(as the other poster was saying), my guess is that it isn't, but, as you say, it seems some strains of hypo are"more hypo than others", so you never know.

The only real way to know if it's just a variation or a genetic color mutation is to breed it and then breed together some of those offspring, so you're talking at least 6 years to find out.
 

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