Hooked on Fish and Corals - Parasites

Originally Posted by Phil Bradley

Not sure why you seem to have an axe to grind here Lucille.....................

Originally Posted by Lucille

I am actually trying to lookout both sides. I feel for anyone who buys a critter from a show and gets it home and it is ill, but if the critter looked ill at the show perhaps passing on the sale might have been the better choice.

So what you are saying is if I had no experience in recognizing possible illness it would be ok?
Say I did pass and someone else with no experience which is as you know a common occurrence with patrons at shows purchased the animal. All other factors being the same i.e. questions asked prior, merchant lying to buyer numerous times, lack of communication from seller, postmortem fecals, etc, etc.
How would that change anything with regards to whether or not someone should or shouldn't purchase from the seller? Would they get the same responses if they came here too and posted in the BOI?

Expos have always been buyer beware and buyers are expected to have some level of knowledge about the critters they are purchasing before they put down money. I've seen uneducated buyers get shredded in the various feedback groups for making stupid newbie mistakes when purchasing animals.

That said, it sounds like you tried to do your due diligence and you asked all the right questions of the seller. Assuming that the deal went down as you said, and at this point there's nothing to indicate otherwise, I don't see what else you could have done.

There is definitely a risk with buying a WC animal at an expo - I think we can all agree on that. And there have been BOI threads where newbie buyers have unfairly blamed sellers for their own lack of research and knowledge. But I don't think that is the case here.

I think there are two scenarios at an expo: #1 WC animal that looks a little ill. Seller is honest about the animal. Buyer buys it, takes on the risk knowingly and manages the animal's care accordingly.

#2 WC animal, buyer is concerned and asks a lot of detailed questions. The seller lies, or even mistakenly gives out false assurance. Believing the seller, the buyer buys the animal and reasonably thinks its dehydrated. Doesn't rush it to the vet for rampant parasites because it's already been treated, according to the seller. The animal then dies, likely from parasites that weren't treated.

I think a refund should be offered, given that the latter seems to be the case. Of course, the seller might have a different opinion on what was said at the expo, so it would be nice to hear from them here as well.

I agree entirely. I'm not a very trusting buyer, since I was a buyer professionally and have seen how many sellers can manipulate facts to get a sale (a nice way to say, lie through their teeth, lol). I think of it like this, if a used car dealer told me that the car I was buying was in perfect condition and had just been inspected, I would want proof... that being said, I don't think it removes the guilt from the car dealer if he was lying and I end up on the side of the road with the engine spitting smoke and flames into the air because I didn't ask for proof. There are definitely things we can do as buyers to mitigate our risks, but not doing those things doesn't make the seller innocent... it just puts the buyer in a less than convenient situation.

I hope the seller either gives the refund, or explains their reasoning for not. If there is another side to be told, they should be here telling it instead of leaving us to guess what their reasoning may be. Time's ticking if they want to do it for free too :P

Anything perishable is always at risk. Thats the nature of the business. The above post is a naive way of explaining away why these things happen. If you have any doubt, concerns, or it looks to good to be true, don't buy. In order to accept the sellers tale, you should know the seller then the item in question. If there are no TOS at that table, your on your own. It was just a poor decision to purchase and a chance !

That is where the difference lies. Its that simple. best of luck with the cc company.

I agree with Knobtail, buying any reptile has risks , but way more when it's a delicate, wild caught import at a show that doesn't look good to begin with. Consider what that animal already went through just to get onto the table alive .... it wasn't born in a clean collection, raised a couple months by a dedicated breeder and driven from a few hours away to be put on display for sale. It went through hell being collected, shipped overseas, sat in some shit hole wholesalers warehouse in Florida awhile before ending up where it did.

The best things aren't at shows anyway. I understand you were looking for this species and CB&B weren't available so with that, as experienced as you are , the risks of buying a WC animal must have been clear. You gambled and lost ... we've all been there.

As far as 'terms of sale' at shows ; are there really such things from WC sellers ? Even if there are, most likely they aren't going to honor it. Many serious breeders offer some sort of guarentee as they honestly want the buyer to be happy with their new animal. But with most of the bigger, WC dealers it isn't that way or they'd be giving refunds on animals that didn't last a week about 90% of the time.

Stay away from the shows and seek out private breeders of the things you're interested in and your odds of winning will improve a lot . Buying a delicate chameleon that is sitting on a table with Pacman frogs and WC water turtles isn't the place to be buying a chameleon. You already knew that but wanted it bad enough to take a shot at it.

Best of luck in the future.

Well-stated, Jim!

Originally Posted by tlmoon

There is definitely a risk with buying a WC animal at an expo - I think we can all agree on that. And there have been BOI threads where newbie buyers have unfairly blamed sellers for their own lack of research and knowledge. But I don't think that is the case here.

I think there are two scenarios at an expo: #1 WC animal that looks a little ill. Seller is honest about the animal. Buyer buys it, takes on the risk knowingly and manages the animal's care accordingly.

#2 WC animal, buyer is concerned and asks a lot of detailed questions. The seller lies, or even mistakenly gives out false assurance. Believing the seller, the buyer buys the animal and reasonably thinks its dehydrated. Doesn't rush it to the vet for rampant parasites because it's already been treated, according to the seller. The animal then dies, likely from parasites that weren't treated.

I think a refund should be offered, given that the latter seems to be the case. Of course, the seller might have a different opinion on what was said at the expo, so it would be nice to hear from them here as well.

Just a question for the OP: As you've already filed a chargeback through your CC, are you looking for anything further, or is this a thread to inform potential buyers of a company that was deceptive and should be avoided?

I tend to think it's the latter, for which I thank you.

I've been to enough shows to know that there are FEW vendors I would even consider buying from. If I see something I like and don't know the vendor, I look at EVERYTHING he/she has on display. I wouldn't buy squat unless the animal I was interested in looked 100 percent healthy as well as everything else at that table. That's not always a "failsafe" if vendors let people handle their animals haphazardly. Dark coloration and sunken eyes? Pass every time!

Originally Posted by MikeCurtin

Just a question for the OP: As you've already filed a chargeback through your CC, are you looking for anything further, or is this a thread to inform potential buyers of a company that was deceptive and should be avoided?

I tend to think it's the latter, for which I thank you.

Yes Mike the latter.