Off The Ark Exotic Pets INQUIRY

Originally Posted by viandy

Big Tiger,
You seem to be missing the point of this thread. Off the Ark Exotic Pets very brazenly breaks state law by advertising and selling Virginia native species, such as Yellow bellied sliders, Eastern Painted turtles, and Eastern box turtles. He violates Chesterfield County law by displaying and selling venomous animals. If he sells a Va native herp that has been perfectly well cared for, he breaks the law. It is that simple. Do you support breaking wildlife laws, or laws in general? That is the primary thing this thread has been talking about, not how he treats animals, but that he breaks the law. This reflects badly on reptile keepers as a whole, and can bring about stricter local and state laws concerning the keeping of exotics. I am not in favor of that, and I doubt that you are either.
As for his concern for animals' well being and his standards of animal care, you need to read what Vinnie says on this thread which he initiated:

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/for...light=biosphere

He talks about having a 4'X4'X2' cage into which he'll put:

1 Tarantula, size corresponding to other animals in its "world", leopard geckos, with a heat pad in their section of the "world", collared lizards that should climb and bask, baby sulcatas and a pair of mice (adam and Eve).

If someone who proposes that cares for the welfare of animals, they are not knowledgeable of the animals' basic needs. Conversely, if they are aware of the animals' needs, they have no concern for their welfare.

Andy Via

Actually Andy,the initial point of this thread was an individual asking for info on off The Ark.That was the initial point.I gave my personal experience with Vinny.So no,I was not missing the point.

If I asked about a store and was told it was clean, well maintained, and stocked with illegal merchandise, it's the latter information that would be of must interest to me. Don't you think that's something important to know?

Actually Andy, Bigtiger is correct, the first question was about any dealings, not about bashing. Chesterfield was there today and they were satisfied and the State makes their normal inspections. Proper permits are in place and there are more legal permits for crocodilians(sp) than you are aware of. Hope you don't get offened by this reply as I have considered you a friend in the past. There are lots of venomous around in collections. Your ex boss had them in his house! See you around.

As a side note, I have read the "quote" from the dog catcher on page 2 several times and had a legal friend read it. No where does it say venomous snakes can not be kept. It clearly says exotic and wild animals. The venomous snakes is implied only and just his or her interpretation and there for can't really be enforced. They don't like it, but it can't be said to be illegal. Why do you think the guy that got bit by his albino exotic pet wasn't prosecuted. Just my take on that ordinance.

Regards, Randy

If he's not breaking the law, he's not breaking the law. Fair enough. I still thnk his idea of a collared lizard/sulcata/leopard gecko/tarantula/rodent habitat is idiotic.

Andy are you 100% sure these animals were Wc from Virginia. Because according to the the code of Virginia

Under the section Other Regulations & Guidelines Regarding Buying and Selling Wildlife it states:

Because the Lacey Act restricts the interstate transport of birds and other animals, federal laws prohibit moving fish and wildlife into the state if they were illegally taken elsewhere. Therefore, if you make a wildlife purchase from an out-of-state supplier, the species must have been legally collected, propagated, and/or sold according to the laws of that state.

So if those Boxies came from a state where they are not protected and they were collected and sold according to the other states laws It appears to be legal. Not defending Off the Ark Im just trying to be partial.

Originally Posted by rlmcritters

As a side note, I have read the "quote" from the dog catcher on page 2 several times and had a legal friend read it. No where does it say venomous snakes can not be kept. It clearly says exotic and wild animals. The venomous snakes is implied only and just his or her interpretation and there for can't really be enforced. They don't like it, but it can't be said to be illegal. Why do you think the guy that got bit by his albino exotic pet wasn't prosecuted. Just my take on that ordinance.

Regards, Randy

If the venomous snake is not indigenous to Virginia or The county it is an exotic species / Animal.

Originally Posted by rlmcritters

The venomous snakes is implied only and just his or her interpretation and there for can't really be enforced.

If you are not going to name your legal source that is third party information and Violates the rules of the BOI...

Well, my knowledge of the law is obviously lacking, and I apologize for that. Whenever I put things on the BOI I try to make them strictly factual, and it seems like I am off target in this case. I certainly have no argument with you, Randy, about this. If I'm wrong about the state and local codes, well, I apologize. I was speaking in ignorance and I stand corrected.
Given my personal interaction with the store's owner, I don't support him and couldn't recommend him. Having someone lie to me doesn't make me want to do business with them. The "biosphere" thread makes me shudder.
I will definitely do more research before I post a "fact", it seems I didn't do a very good job of it this time.
Andy Via

Originally Posted by Serafim

Andy are you 100% sure these animals were Wc from Virginia.
....

So if those Boxies came from a state where they are not protected and they were collected and sold according to the other states laws It appears to be legal. Not defending Off the Ark Im just trying to be partial.

The way this has been explained to me by VA Game officials is that it is illegal to sell any non-game/protected species that is native to Virginia, regardless of whether or not it was WC, CB, imported from out-of-state originally, or what ever: if it is a species native to VA, it cannot be sold (certain exceptions apply).

So their own state law enforcement code is open for interpretation. It is obvious if the guy is selling them and has been inspected by the county and commonwealth their may be some type of grey area.