Wise's rights?

Originally Posted by StrictlyExotics

Brian, while I respect what you are trying to state here but how is that even fair for people who WERE mentioned, like me What I find "odd' is that two people NOT involved in the auctions by winning or donating, but fully involved in the finger-pointing on the thread are invited to the shindig.

Withholding the names is fair. The only reason you know your name was mentioned is because someone saw it on the screen before they got the boot. Now, you see how upset you are, well multiply that times four and then look at the mess. Deborah, and I are only trying to help. We contribute here and we have every right to help any way we can even if others disagree with it. We have done nothing wrong. When the whole thing went down, we had no idea who's names she was going to bring out. So how were we suppose to know? You say you should have been invited to the chat. It was a spur of the moment type thing and not a lot of thought went into it, there wasn't time for that.

Originally Posted by StrictlyExotics

This thread and the Wise thread will be the LAST two I participate in on this site, unless I have a BOI thread to write, or have to deal with my name being in one. I will also involve myself in MY OWN sales ads should I ever choose to place another one on here.

I am sorry you feel this way.

Originally Posted by StrictlyExotics

To be blunt and perfectly honest with you, you and Deb are the reason my name was even mentioned in the whole chat issue simply because you two chose to point fingers at me. When all is said and done, I can promise one thing and one thing only...

You are way off base here. And you talk about finger pointing. It was spur of the moment like I said above. I happened to wonder into chat and Christina was already in there. Deb posted something about a pm from Christina in chat and I posted that Christina was a lier, and then Christina responded. I didn't even realize Christina was there until she responded to me calling her a lier, I never looked at the name list to see who was there. She is the last person I expected to be there.

Originally Posted by StrictlyExotics

Fauna will lose me as a contributor to this site as I feel like I have nothing more that I can contribute without being profiled as somehow being involved just because someone happens to NOT like what I have to post.

There is always someone who is not going to like what someone else post's. It happens and will always happen. Some may even be from personality conflicts. You statement is not the most mature and you are not a victom here. You seem to be playing on people's sympathy. Everyone here can contribute in some form or another as you have and if you feel you need to stop, then that is your choice and no one is forcing you to do so, or even suggesting that you do so. You have made many good post's here on this site. And, I have not accused you of any wrong doing.

Originally Posted by tinmantribe5

I agree with Dean if you were not part of the Auction by donating time or Money you should have no 2 cents to say or be invited to this shindig!
Thats my 1 and only comment on this subject
Peace to everyone!

You are wrong. We have every right to try to help any way we can. All members have the right to help, and that is what we are trying to do.

Originally Posted by SamanthaJane13

So if the software is similar to that used by xat, Christine COULD basically "call the shots" in the room and have people removed or keep them from reading/responding.

I already said, Christina was not calling the shots.

Originally Posted by brd7666

1. Christina was not calling the shots on anything.

Originally Posted by StrictlyExotics

As for the BOI and the victims of the Wise's, I wasnt the one who decided to derail it from them. I didnt have a private chat with them trying to see who else could have possibly been involved. I handled my business with them OUT of the BOI thread and through personal contacts.

This thread was created because you and Brian feel compelled NOT to post what was said in the private chat that deals with DIRECTLY speaking to the Wise's. Oddly enough, neither one of you had anything at stake regarding the Wise's or the Wise's auctions. But, for some reason, you two feel like you have the right to hold whatever info that you have so dear to you. I would imagine that you two feel this compelled to do so because all it was could make you two accountable for what you have had to say.

The private chat has been explained. You keep hammering away at the fact that Deb, and I didn't have anything to do with the auctions. So what, we are trying to contribute in a way that we are able to do so. We don't like what has happened any more then anyone else. Give it a rest.

Deb is not with holding anything, I am. If it ends up turning out to be what I think it is, then there will be no reason to share it. It will only upset more people and derail things and cause more of these conflicts between members who are legitimitley trying to help out here. I didn't have to save the chat in the first place.

Originally Posted by JudyC

I honestly don't see what the hang-up is about sharing what was said in chat. The reasons given for not sharing aren't making much sense (and are somewhat contradictory).

1. "Nothing new was said" ......ok...that wouldn't be a big surprise, really. So why not prove it by letting everyone else see that nothing new was said?

2. "She accused others of bad things and it would be unfair to drag their names into it" ........ I agree it would be unfair to just toss their names out without the full context of what was said. BUT...if she's going to try and implicate others in her twisted schemes in order to deflect heat from herself, I think that is something everyone should know and see in writing and the people she has accused (if there really are any such) should be allowed to have their say.

3. "We're waiting for certain 'evidence' to be e-mailed to us and then it will be reviewed by a select few" ........... since when is BOI-related evidence only meant to be reviewed by a "select few"? Since when does a "select few" get to decide what is "worthy" to be shared on the BOI?

What's done is done....and hollering at Deb or Brian for deigning to consent to and facilitate a private chat with Christina is pointless. But I'm telling the both of you....whatever your motives were going in, all you're accomplishing at this point is shooting yourselves in the foot and making the entire mess even more muddier than it was a couple days ago.

The only people making this thing muddier, are those who continue to question the chat. Deb, Harold, and I have all said our piece. Everyone who continues to comment is dragging this on. I was never under any obligation to save the chat, I did it because she said she was going to send some screen shots and files through email to back up her claims. If she can't back up her claims, then I don't know if I will ever post any of it. It would then only hurt more people and create more garbage. So far I have nothing to back up her claims.

Originally Posted by wyldwurm

I agree with everything Judy has said here.

I also wanted to ask a question. If Christina isn't privy to this part of fauna, why NOT post the chat log here? Or at least make it available to the people Christina was pointing the finger at.

To me, it looks like the people who had trust issues with Dean are only withholding this information to continue to point the finger at him. It's obvious they have something to hide, otherwise the accused would have had this information already.

At this point in time I am not posting any screen shots of chat. If or when the time comes, I will do it then, now is not the time. Right now it has no merit, so there is no need for more meaningless drama. Deb, Harold, and I are not hiding anything. The only person pointing fingers is Christina.

Originally Posted by Southern Wolf

Actually your wrong here... it goes to add more proof to her MO. She is trying to hide the truth with lies... .just like the bogus check and bank statement.

Either way... it needs to come out. If she is lieing.... why protect her. Burn her.... and more evidence to show a pattern.

No one is protecting anyone. We have all talked about what we feel is right at this time. Will I or won't I post it, I don't have that answer at this time, only time will tell.

Originally Posted by TattooLost

Any emails yet? Guess it takes Christina a few days to create the evidence?

I don't see why anyone would want to protect Christina and Jeff. Sorry, but that's exactly what it seems like certain people are doing, but "not disclosing" anything for whatever reason. Unless there's something said or shown that might make you believe she had a good reason for stealing all that money, why help her? Is it just to be in the limelight? To have people wagging their tails at your feet, waiting for you to throw out a little piece of information?

I've avoided that BOI thread pretty much, and Fauna in general. I already hated taking charity, though we needed it and it helped greatly. Then all this crap happened, and it's turned into a three-ring circus.

I've got some dear friends thanks to this site. Luckily I can still keep in touch with them without all the drama.

On a final note, thank you to EVERYONE that donated, to us AND to Maggie. Even if it all didn't get where it was supposed to go, the thought alone means a lot. Thanks, from the bottom of mine and Sandra's heart.

Cya.

I have recieved some emails, and I thought I mentioned it. I consider them to be nothing at this point in time.

I will say it again, no one is protecting the Wise's here. If anything I am protecting the people she accused, by exposing it, these people will become even more upset then they already are.

Originally Posted by brd7666

I will say it again, no one is protecting the Wise's here. If anything I am protecting the people she accused, by exposing it, these people will become even more upset then they already are.

Do you really think anyone will believe her? It will add to her stack of lies, nothing more. They're innocent until proven guilty, and she can't prove them guilty. But don't the accused deserve the right to defend themselves and clear their own names? They would have such right in a court of law.

Yeah good point Diana!!

Originally Posted by dheideman

This is the part that bothers me the most. A "select few" review isn't what the BOI is about and never has been. As I stated in the other thread, it goes against the entire "permanent and transparent" principle the site is FOR.

(I know I'm a relatively new poster, so I'll probably be discredited. So be it. But the Wise scandal brought me out of the woodwork after being a BOI reader for years and years with pride and amazement at what it does.)

It took the sleuthing work of a LOT of people in the original thread to bust open all of the lies in the forged documents we were given. I'm not sure "a select few" would have been able to hunt down the exact font the fake check was dummied in, for example. If she's giving us more forged, fake "proof" of things, aren't more eyes better? A couple of people can overlook things, or not have the skills to bring them out. It took a large handful of people to really bust open the extent of the crimes and lies when this all shook down.

See..this is the mess...

I have already stated there was nothing new. Those who KNOW me, should know by now that I do not and never have bowed to "popular opinion" or "mob mentality." In fact, telling me that I MUST do something and inferring that I'll be disliked if I don't won't help anything, I'll just dig in my heels, 'cause I KNOW I haven't done anything wrong, and some of y'all can go piss up a rope. cause your friendship ain't all that.

I have been put though some crap just for listening to Christina and even before that and been LIED on...but that's fine. Some of y'all seem to forget it's a FREE world and I am allowed to speak to whom I want when I want and I don't HAVE to share anything (now if there was anything legal that could be used, I would share that).

It wasn't even about "protecting" Christina, and if everyone had been respectful and knew how to STFU they would know the same thing I did. So thank the few of you that didn't know how to respect boundaries that I am now really ticked off because the whole situation basically involves the fact that even though I am a member here, I still retain FREE WILL (I have always wanted to say that! )

Originally Posted by dheideman

Do you really think anyone will believe her? It will add to her stack of lies, nothing more. They're innocent until proven guilty, and she can't prove them guilty. But don't the accused deserve the right to defend themselves and clear their own names? They would have such right in a court of law.

If I thought people would believe her, I would have posted what she said. At this point, I'm not sure the three people who were in the chat believe her. Posting it at this time will only upset the accused even more, and there really is no need for that. Have you ever heard the old saying "what they don't know won't hurt them". That applies here, there is no reason to upset people any more then they already are if it was just a bunch of crap. The rules in a court of law, do not apply here.

Originally Posted by dheideman

This is the part that bothers me the most. A "select few" review isn't what the BOI is about and never has been. As I stated in the other thread, it goes against the entire "permanent and transparent" principle the site is FOR.

(I know I'm a relatively new poster, so I'll probably be discredited. So be it. But the Wise scandal brought me out of the woodwork after being a BOI reader for years and years with pride and amazement at what it does.)

No one is going to discredit you. You have your opinion and that is fine. The conversation that took place yesterday was not on the BOI and therefore subject for review, as it may be worthless.

Originally Posted by brd7666

Withholding the names is fair. The only reason you know your name was mentioned is because someone saw it on the screen before they got the boot. Now, you see how upset you are, well multiply that times four and then look at the mess. Deborah, and I are only trying to help. We contribute here and we have every right to help any way we can even if others disagree with it. We have done nothing wrong. When the whole thing went down, we had no idea who's names she was going to bring out. So how were we suppose to know? You say you should have been invited to the chat. It was a spur of the moment type thing and not a lot of thought went into it, there wasn't time for that.

Brian, I never said you did anything wrong by having a chat with Christina. What you FAIL to realize is that you two brought up my name in her thread along with Dennis. Christina seeing people attack me and me feeling the need to defend myself in there from your "innuendo" that I must have some ulterior motive got her to thinking.

My problem with Deb regarding the chat isnt that she had the chat to begin with. As you know, I was VERY cordial with the both of you when I entered the chat room. I had known for an hour about the so-called private chat and CHOSE not to go into chat to disrupt it. What I have a problem with is the only people in the chat, other than a moderator, which Deb told me she chose because she knows I trust all of the mods was that the only people in the chat were people who pointed out that they had issues with me.

Originally Posted by brd7666

You are way off base here. And you talk about finger pointing. It was spur of the moment like I said above. I happened to wonder into chat and Christina was already in there. Deb posted something about a pm from Christina in chat and I posted that Christina was a lier, and then Christina responded. I didn't even realize Christina was there until she responded to me calling her a lier, I never looked at the name list to see who was there. She is the last person I expected to be there.




There is always someone who is not going to like what someone else post's. It happens and will always happen. Some may even be from personality conflicts. You statement is not the most mature and you are not a victom here. You seem to be playing on people's sympathy. Everyone here can contribute in some form or another as you have and if you feel you need to stop, then that is your choice and no one is forcing you to do so, or even suggesting that you do so. You have made many good post's here on this site. And, I have not accused you of any wrong doing.

I never said you went so far as to accuse me of wrongdoing. What I DID state was that your innuendo in the Wise thread was just another reason why I became a target. Do I hold you, or Deb, 100% responsible... Absolutely not. After all, I was the idiot who felt compelled to post in a thread that I had some involvement in. Well, I wont be making THAT mistake again.

Originally Posted by brd7666

You are wrong. We have every right to try to help any way we can. All members have the right to help, and that is what we are trying to do.

I am not saying that you dont have the right to NOT help. I have stated many many times that I understand and validate the reasons for having the chat. What I have issues is with the lack of other people allowed to be a part of it.

Originally Posted by brd7666

The private chat has been explained. You keep hammering away at the fact that Deb, and I didn't have anything to do with the auctions. So what, we are trying to contribute in a way that we are able to do so. We don't like what has happened any more then anyone else. Give it a rest.

Deb is not with holding anything, I am. If it ends up turning out to be what I think it is, then there will be no reason to share it. It will only upset more people and derail things and cause more of these conflicts between members who are legitimitley trying to help out here. I didn't have to save the chat in the first place.

The only people making this thing muddier, are those who continue to question the chat. Deb, Harold, and I have all said our piece. Everyone who continues to comment is dragging this on. I was never under any obligation to save the chat, I did it because she said she was going to send some screen shots and files through email to back up her claims. If she can't back up her claims, then I don't know if I will ever post any of it. It would then only hurt more people and create more garbage. So far I have nothing to back up her claims.

At this point in time I am not posting any screen shots of chat. If or when the time comes, I will do it then, now is not the time. Right now it has no merit, so there is no need for more meaningless drama. Deb, Harold, and I are not hiding anything. The only person pointing fingers is Christina.

Not true. Christina is not the only one pointing fingers. She is only using the tools provided to her by members of this forum.

Originally Posted by brd7666

No one is protecting anyone. We have all talked about what we feel is right at this time. Will I or won't I post it, I don't have that answer at this time, only time will tell.

I have recieved some emails, and I thought I mentioned it. I consider them to be nothing at this point in time.

I will say it again, no one is protecting the Wise's here. If anything I am protecting the people she accused, by exposing it, these people will become even more upset then they already are.

I would never accuse or even suggest that someone is protecting them, including you and Deb. And I would almost agree with you that by NOT posting your info, you are protecting the names that WERE mentioned. The question everyone has though is what makes you feel like you can sort this out all on your own and be able to make that choice?

Originally Posted by brd7666

At this point in time I am not posting any screen shots of chat. If or when the time comes, I will do it then, now is not the time. Right now it has no merit, so there is no need for more meaningless drama. Deb, Harold, and I are not hiding anything. The only person pointing fingers is Christina.

I was in NO way referring to Harald.

You, of course, have the right to post or not post as you see fit. More power to you. Seems that is exactly what it boils down to since this particular thread is in no way attached to the BOI.

Originally Posted by brd7666

5. Christina never posted any screen shots in chat. I took screen shots of the entire chat because I don't know how to use all of the features in chat, so this was my way of saving it. I have recieved a few screen shots within the past few hours that came from Christina in emails. These are screen shots that she is trying to say back up her claims. This information will be reviewed by a select few, and then a decision will be made. None of the people she has accused will be in the select few that I mentioned.

6. I am not going to guarantee anything will be shown to the public. If it is decided that it is bull crap, then there will be no reason to share it. It will only cause more distractions, and more derailing of the facts. The waters are muddy enough and don't need to be even dirtier.

Like others have posted, these two points are the ones that bother me the most.

The Wises have been given many, many chances on the BOI to come clean, and they only admitted to lying and the fake check (I don't think they ever admitted to faking the bank statement) when we caught on. People like this thrive on getting many chances--this gives them time to try to cover their butts in some way or another. Quite frankly, after we'd given them chance #2 or maaaaybe #3, that should be it. Period. Done.

I realize the more optimistic people see that keeping "lines of communication" open might get Maggie and Rich their money; however, I see it as naivete. Do some of you truly think they are going to pay the money back? Do you think they even have money? These are the type of people who spend every penny they have, and when they run out of money to buy all manner of useless things they want, they scam innocent people out of their hard-earned money and continue their lifestyle as if there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. These people don't think they've done anything wrong!!! These people are not going to pay the money back unless they are made to.

I'm sorry, but even allowing a chat--whether private or not--to take place merely shows that we are gullible and will do anything Christina wants as long as she continues to make us think she might actually come up with something. At this point, the only thing communicating with Christina will do is delay the legal avenues we're preparing, get more of us to attack each other, and further push our focus away from her.

Yes, the chat happened. It's done. It's over. Nothing we can do about it now. But the fact that people are even giving her the time of day is beyond disturbing to me.

Originally Posted by StrictlyExotics

The question everyone has though is what makes you feel like you can sort this out all on your own and be able to make that choice?

If or when the time comes, I will not sort it out on my own. If I don't get any more emails, I am not even going to look at it again. If I do get some kind of proof, I will forward it to Harold, and maybe even other mods as well. As of right now, there is no merit to her claims.

Originally Posted by brd7666

No one is going to discredit you. You have your opinion and that is fine. The conversation that took place yesterday was not on the BOI and therefore subject for review, as it may be worthless.

This is a genuine question, but does Fauna consider the chatroom "part of Fauna" in its moderations and regulations, or not--as in can users be given site inrfractions or banned for chatroom behaviour? (I know some forums do, some don't.) I understand the client itself is third party.

I don't think anyone would care if this was a chat on AIM, or g-talk or email or whatever. I know a lot of people have had private interactions with her.

What's got at least me is it feels like using Fauna resources, and involving Fauna members, but with a layer of secrecy the site doesn't normally have.