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03-21-2004, 12:44 PM
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#11
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Quote:
Originally posted by serpentsden
Hey if my American Bull Dog should ever deside to turn on me does that give me Rights to sue the breeder? Or lets say can this snake be tracked all the way back to Africa and sue every person that had hands on this animal????
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Of course not. But what it is all going to boil down to is you let a minor leave your store with a venomous snake. You should have insisted the mother come in with him to pick it up or no sale. You got a tough fight infront of you.
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03-21-2004, 01:04 PM
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#12
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Bush viper bite
I am a registered nurse and I can tell you what most likely happened when the boy arrived at the ER. The staff would have done an assessment and vital signs. The ER doc would have tried to determine the species and how much venom was injected. Amputation is not indicated in this situation. A fasciotomy (splitting of the skin and muscles) may be indicated depending on the amount of swelling. Unresponsive or comatose disposition is unlikely.
We have a fellow here in Houston that was bitten by an adult red spitting cobra and all he experienced was pain and then numbness. He spent 7 days in the hospital with no antivenin, no special meds, no anything other than IV fluids. He was never faint, nauseated, or passed out.
Back to the boy... I suspect he suffered little effects of the venom if any. In my profession we have to distinguish between "trauma and drama." Perhaps he was milking the whole being at the center of attention thing for all it is worth. Legally I know you may not access his confidential medical information with out the mother's permission or a court order. If you are inclined to interview the ER staff you may try. They are able to tell you general things but if they stonewall you it is not in defense of the boy but protection of their jobs. Medical people can get fired for even a small confidentially infraction.
Dude, I wish you luck in this matter. I have purposely avoided commenting on the legal aspects of the transaction. Not my expertise nor my business. Take care, David
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03-21-2004, 01:10 PM
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#13
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Steve.... I'm not your enemy here.... but, let me try to explain....
1. You're correct, you said so....
2. Any time you take a credit card over the phone and don't have PROOF that you shipped the animal.... the purchaser (if they choose) has 18 MONTHS to charge it back (been there).... swiping the card and having it signed by the minor makes no difference, he didn't own the card.... and since he took the snake with him, you have no way of proving receipt from the MOTHER....
3. YOU might know that you were talking to the Mother, but you can't PROVE IT in court.... her son was bitten by a deadly snake and she (and he) is in for a long and hard battle to overcome that, if her insurance doesn't cover a part (or any) of it, she is going to look for a scapegoat.... and guess who that's going to be.... it was her SON.... get in the middle of a mother tiger and her cub, and see who comes out on the losing end....
4. She could argue that she just realized it and doesn't scrutinize her bills every month (see #2)....
5. Your not "feeling" responsible is a far cry from what the LAW says.... this one lapse in transgression on your part could end up costing you DEARLY.... I'm just giving you the heads-up to be ready for it....
In your last paragraph, you're just making excuses which have no bearing on the case at hand.... it's apples and oranges.... you could give all the "what-if's" you want.... it won't change the facts of THIS case....
No matter how idiotic the minor was, and he probably did everything he could think of to GET the snake to bite him.... it could still be very easily construed as negligence on your part by selling it to him in the first place (with or without his "mother's" permission).... of course, she's an idiot for agreeing to it anyway, but that's her right.... you just have to be able to PROVE IT in a court of LAW.... you're going to find it's not going to be that easy....
You will also have to spend THOUSANDS of dollars on your attorney (look at what Rich is going through with a case that he will CERTAINLY win)....
Arguing your problem HERE will make no difference in the final outcome.... I would suggest you stay SILENT on this site about it, because if her lawyer gets ahold of this.... he could easily use it against you somehow.... and you can BET he will try....
I just don't know what else to tell you, except get yourself a good lawyer NOW and try some preventative measures like contacting YOUR insurance company (with your lawyer's permission) to maybe show mitigation on your part....
Again.... I really wish you luck in your fight....
One last piece of advice.... stay away from minors, or have the parent PRESENT when you make the sale.... DO NOT ship out ANY venomous snake to ANYONE unless you can get a NOTORIZED statement from an ADULT giving you permission....
Neil
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03-21-2004, 02:30 PM
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#14
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steve was this a local sale
Steve, If this was a local sale I think we would have seen it on the news! Our local news jumps on snake bites, also I'm sure they would have contacted you! Was the the kid envenomated?
Did the lawyer ask for anything? BTW I have purchased from you at hamburg, and wish you much luck in this!
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03-21-2004, 02:41 PM
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#15
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Check out this legal site
this site has free forums for legal advice!
http://law.freeadvice.com/ they are generaly pretty quick at getting a reply
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03-21-2004, 02:54 PM
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#16
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Sometimes you just have to turn your back on a sale and accept the fact that some people shouldn't own animals. I've been in the Pet Industry for 30+ years, and have on more than a few occasions told a potential buyer they could not have an animal because I didn't feel they were responsible enough. I would have RUN as fast as I could from this sale, it seems to me like another spoiled brat getting whatever he wants from a parent thats "TOO BUSY" to pay attention to the details. I do not sell venomous reptiles but if I did you can bet he would not have left my shop with it. Even bringing Mom wouldn't have been enough to get it from me. You need to be accountable because you will be held accountable for your actions. I hope things work out for you, and I would contact my insurance company and see if they will cover me on this, my guess is they won't and you'll be dropped like a hot potato but it can't hurt to ask. They'll probably find out anyway.
John Chapek
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03-21-2004, 02:56 PM
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#17
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Steve.... the only problem with THIS sale, was that you sold it to a minor.... if this kid was over 18, you would have NO problems at all right now....
Just do yourself a favor and DO NOT reply to any more of these messages (from anybody)....
I would even go so far as to ask Rich to erase the whole thing for your OWN protection.... whether he does or not is strictly up to him....
Neil
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03-21-2004, 03:00 PM
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#18
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John.... that happened to me just this past Friday.... I got a PayPal for $129 out of the blue from a "person" (NO emails or queiries beforehand).... in the "notes section" of PayPal were these words....
"I am wanting to by your retic. How big do they get and wat do they eet."
I politely sent his money back (as fast as I could)....
Neil
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03-21-2004, 04:35 PM
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#19
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I think you are at fault. NO ONE should sell venomus snakes for pets to teen agers who have no idea how to care for one. he went from wanted a common easy to care for snake to a HOT and you say nothing funny about that?
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03-21-2004, 04:44 PM
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#20
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NOT GOOD
What's going to get you is the selling of a venoumous snake to a minor who used his mother's card without any form of signed written permission. That has been stated over and over in this thread, but it's the blow that will get you if anything.
In this "Sue Happy" society we live, that is what it will come down to in my opinion.
It doesn't matter what was said on the phone or any verbal agreements you had, they are worth nothing unless they also transpired onto paper as well... word for word.
I used to sell knives, swords and stuff like that... but if the person was under 18 years of age.. NO sale in Colorado, no matter what they said. They had to have a parent buy it for them and be present during the sale. The money had to come from the hands of the parent... what the parent did with the purchase once out of my domain is not my responisbility.
What I am getting at is why did you complete a sale to a minor, when a phone call to the parent could of had them come and make the payment in person?
You have basically left yourself open on that one!
Quote:
Well I really don't see anything incriminating that I have not already spoke to there attorney about. I'm no longer going to communicate with there attorney and I'm going to run this by my attorney and let him handle this for me.
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Surely you didn't give their attorney information without first contacting yours???? Apposing attorney's love people that do that!
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