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Old 12-19-2004, 10:59 PM   #61
ms_terese
Quote:
And before this gets even more out of hand:
Ian, it seems we were typing at the same time.

I understand that you are not personally involved in the useless killing of snakes, and that you see that the SnakeSnare may have some valid uses.

Here's my argument: the seller of the product is marketing it as a tool to kill unwanted snakes for inane reasons. (He lists some of the inane reasons on his website, which I won't bother to copy and paste again.)

Most people who find that a wrong thing to do would not support the business. Those who are truly offended by it would likely do what some snake lovers here are doing: blasting the man with emails explaining why his product and the marketing of it are so offensive.

That doesn't make anyone here uneducated, ignorant, or a redneck.
 
Old 12-19-2004, 11:00 PM   #62
Rockford
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanV
First off, a similar design is already in use by many people. So maybe a little ducation on the subject is in order here.
And it is NOT a trap. This is in no way a trap! Come on people, brighten up a little. It is similar to most snare poles used by animal control. I have used it many times to move rattlesnakes when I have not had a hook available for whatever reasons. It caused absolutely no harm to the rattlesnakes, and all were relocated sucessfully.

For those that piss a fit about a snake dying, do you care about deer or elk dying? I would assume that most of us here hunt in some way, and some people hunt rattlesnakes. Is it right? In some cases, yes. I don't believe in the mass killing of roundups, but I also feel people have the right to kill a rattlesnake if they feel the need.
I can't believe that you have the nerve to call me a redneck, when most of you are the most arrogant, uninformed people I have ever had to meet.

Ian van Natter
Wow! Ian- I have no problem with Elk or Deer being hunted for meat or sport to control the herds. What kind of need would there be for killing a rattlesnake? Maybe if you were starving in the desert and had nothing else to eat. Have you ever eaten rattlesnake? I haven't had the need to but there really isn't a whole lot of meat to them.

I believe that most folks here wouldn't have a problem with the snake snare if it was marketed for the reasons that you are pointing out. However it was not. That's real sweet that you are defending your buddy but there are other designs to steal from and make money when it comes to animal control. This one was described as being particularly harmful to a snakes life. I am not sure if you are aware that this is a herp forum that you are posting on but it is. Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah......Tired of typing common sense. It doesn't work when people just don't get it. Oh...Not all of us send threatening e-mails either.

Have fun with your six(6) snakesnares. Keeping them yourself or are they Christmas gifts for all your friends and family? Starting your own Utah Rattlesnake Roundup? Yee-Haw!!!


Happy Holidays!!

Bthacker
 
Old 12-19-2004, 11:01 PM   #63
IanV
Terese, I dont believe in people decapitating any animal for no reason. If someone was actually going to eat that cat, and it was there cat-more power to them. I also posted that I do not lump every poster in with the ones sending threats, and I want to make sure that everyone realizes that. I am sure 99% of the people here are good people with differing opinions.
I have been working with John to get this product changed for quite some time now. The prototype he sent me was the exact same as the midwest snare. The exact same. No thin wires. In fact, compared to the midwest snare, the snake snare has a THICKER rubber coated wire.

Suncoast, you obviously did not look at the product closely. I have 4 here that I can look at any time. There is no thick wire, and no way for it to actually decapitate a snake the way it is currently made.
At one time, this was being marketed to skin hunters and people in the roundups. But now it is bein redesigned as herp. tool that is designed not to hurt snakes. The Midwest design is the exact same as the SnakeSnare, spin it anyway YOU want, they are the same.

Ian
 
Old 12-19-2004, 11:08 PM   #64
Rockford
Ian-

Since it's being re-marketed as a herp tool. Who is going to buy from your buddy in the herp community after his website was selling it as a snake killing device? Selling it to folks who frequent round-ups? Come on get real!!!! Do you think we are stupid? Quit the nonsense and the contraditions.

Bthacker
 
Old 12-19-2004, 11:10 PM   #65
IanV
Breck
You say I am the ignorant one here? Thats a little like the pot calling the kettle black. As for my 6 snake snares, I currently have 4 and gave two to local wildlife officers to use that they promised NOT to kill the snakes.
John and I have never met. He lives thousands of miles away from me, next door to my cousin. Thats how we know each other. We have sent emails back and forth a few times, but other than that I do not know him from Adam. I also have eated rattlesnake before, 2 times to be exact. One was a scout camp back when i was about 14, and the other was at a Brazilian restaurant. Chewy and full of little bones, I don't know why you would want to eat it but some people also eat snails.
It's funny that I am the one called the red-neck in this case when it was people like you that cannot see beyond your little window. While I agree with you believe it or not, I also think that people have every right to kill a snake if they deem it necessary. Make all the moral judgements against it you like, but please refrain from calling me a redneck when you know nothing about me.
Quote:
I am not sure if you are aware that this is a herp forum that you are posting on but it is
Wow....that must be what I am doing wrong. Obviously I know nothing about snakes. Get a grip on reality. People don't share your viewpoint, get over it.
 
Old 12-19-2004, 11:13 PM   #66
IanV
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bthacker
Ian-

Since it's being re-marketed as a herp tool. Who is going to buy from your buddy in the herp community after his website was selling it as a snake killing device? Selling it to folks who frequent round-ups? Come on get real!!!! Do you think we are stupid? Quit the nonsense and the contraditions.

Bthacker
Actually, quite a few people have bought them instead of the midwest snare. Hell, to save 40-60 bucks, who wouldn't. Do I think you are stupid, why yes I think you do fit in that category. You know nothing about the product, just a few lines from a website that was out of date when you read it in the first place. I think you are the one spilling the nonsence. I am trying to educate people, you are too busy labeling others and implying your moral judgement where it is not needed.
 
Old 12-19-2004, 11:23 PM   #67
IanV
Dang it, now I feel bad for calling you stupid and a redneck.
How do I go back and edit my posts? I can't figure it out?

I do however think most of you are seeing only one side of the fence, but that is neither a crime or a reason for name calling on either side.

As for the Missouri comment earlier, I had quite a few relatives ran out of the state and some even killed just for joining a certain religion, so I can't believe they are the most level-headed state :P (It's a joke....I plan on heading out that way for Med. School in a few years anway)
 
Old 12-19-2004, 11:25 PM   #68
Rockford
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanV
Breck
You say I am the ignorant one here? Thats a little like the pot calling the kettle black. As for my 6 snake snares, I currently have 4 and gave two to local wildlife officers to use that they promised NOT to kill the snakes.
John and I have never met. He lives thousands of miles away from me, next door to my cousin. Thats how we know each other. We have sent emails back and forth a few times, but other than that I do not know him from Adam. I also have eated rattlesnake before, 2 times to be exact. One was a scout camp back when i was about 14, and the other was at a Brazilian restaurant. Chewy and full of little bones, I don't know why you would want to eat it but some people also eat snails.
It's funny that I am the one called the red-neck in this case when it was people like you that cannot see beyond your little window. While I agree with you believe it or not, I also think that people have every right to kill a snake if they deem it necessary. Make all the moral judgements against it you like, but please refrain from calling me a redneck when you know nothing about me.

Wow....that must be what I am doing wrong. Obviously I know nothing about snakes. Get a grip on reality. People don't share your viewpoint, get over it.
Hey Pal-

I never called you a redneck for one. Whether or not you are a redneck that is your business. READ MY POSTS!

I have a feeling alot more folks share my viewpoints than your very little thought out points of an attempt at selling your buddy's ill-marketed product. Please feel free to read through the thread again. It might help a little.

One more thing....Why is your buddy's website down? Snake's hibernating? If I was a smart business man I would think Christmas would be a great time of the year for sales?

WHAT A JOKE!!!!!!!!

Bthacker
 
Old 12-19-2004, 11:33 PM   #69
Rockford
Ian-

Calling me stupid and a redneck? I will forgive you on that one. I don't take any offense only because I know who I am.

All I am doing is saying my peace. That is my right as an American and I am sharing my viewpoints without calling people names. Please read your posts. You make many contradictions that i don't feel like quoting and pointing out. Look at your buddy's website. If he ever get's it back up and you will see what I am so passionate about how I feel. There is no need for killing snakes. This tool was marketed as such. Plain and simple.

Please refrain from calling me a stupid redneck again.

Thanks-

Bthacker
 
Old 12-19-2004, 11:43 PM   #70
IanV
You keep refering to him as if we are best friends. I also have never once made an attempt to sell the product.
I do however point out where you are wrong. In fact, I have been talking to John who is currently changing the website since he has "seen the light" if you wish to say. He took the website down because someone from this thread is contacting him with threads, and hacking his site.
Christmas would be the time to sales, but even I would not recommend he sell the product as it is. It does need some more work to make it safer. I do not like the thick rubber coated wire, and I have suggested putting some sort of a wider peice of metal or something, to help avoid rib injuries.
I also apologized for coming off as a jackass, and I hope you will accept it. If not, that is your problem and not mine.
As for the opinion, I have a feeling we are closer to 50/50 on the subject. I have received both the death threat emails, and the emails from people who dont want to get involved but have no problem killing snakes (again, I do not share that viewpoint. I do not kill anything for any reason. In fact, I am the only one around here nice enough to use Hav a hart traps to catch coons, skunks and cats that get in and kill our birds. Most shoot them or poison them with antifreeze).
I understand you are passionate about herps. I am as well, though we come from different "Herp Schools". I have literally been around and kept herps my entire 23 short years. I also have a job in which I deal with professional herpetologists and hobbyists like you and I on a daily basis.
You say there is no reason to kill a snake, and I agree. But as an American, I can recognize that some people have those views and though I feel they are wrong, they can kill them if they feel the need. Thats where education comes into play. Poeple around here know I will come and get anything they need taken care of, but how many people have that available? My grandfather was a great guy, but would kill any rattlesnake on our ranch because they killed the occasional cow. Was he wrong for doing so? I don't think so, but they also didn't have people that would remove them back then. I actually know a few people who enjoy rattlesnake as well, and so if they want to go kill one for them to cook and eat, then they are welcome to do so if they so believe.
While I do not believe in it, I do not feel that it is the worst thing to happen as long as it is within all the boundaries of the law. If it is an endangered species, then of course fry them. I would rather see the snake removed peacefully, but I do not think we will ever get to the point that some people will not be deathly afraid of snakes and want them off their property alive or dead.

Ian
 

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