Scam Artist Keven Vogenberger

Originally Posted by Black Adder

As I already hinted at I am with Tom on this score.

It does not truly matter if Keven does indeed manage to channel a little bit of his proceeds towards more animals there is no way I could ever condone any actions that allowed poor defenceless creatures to just starve, suffer and die.

Sorry but just do not get anybody who could let that happen no matter what the larger picture may be in theory.

That is the thing, though.

...there is no way I could ever condone any actions that allowed poor defenceless creatures to just starve, suffer and die.

Either choice allows exactly this. Some folks may want to think the one path is less worse. Other folks may want to think the other path is less worse. It all probably evens out (mostly), but a reasonable argument can also be made that perpetuation of the practices could lead to more losses drawn out over a longer time via increment since they could be subsidized by the profits as he goes along. And that would be if he is keeping track of all of the dollars in a methodical way and logically evaluating the profits and losses in regular intervals. If he is not, and I doubt Keven is a person of strong accounting acumen, a person doing what he has been doing is more likely to selectively remember his wins over his losses unless the losses occur in a large and painful fashion. It is a flaw in human psychology. People tell me very confidently that they made $500 when they sold a turtle for $500. That they bought for $250. Last year. That had to be fed, cleaned, and heated for a year. There is delusion there. Others buy a wholesale group and "forget" about the two adorable little munchkins out of 30-50 that crapped out by flipping under a heat lamp or something. For some, there is delusion there as well. Some of these animals are very inexpensive to acquire. Even free with the pseudo-"rescue" stuff tugging at the heartstrings of more gullible (and kind) people. He can still start over if he is wiped out, but he is less encouraged to continue if he is in fact wiped out. By wiped out, I do not mean the only path is via death, but it is one. While I am not advocating for or against that approach, I understand it. None of the people who would say to avoid buying from him are desiring the death of those animals. They would be desiring that he would not be causing the death of future animals and they see no way way to get the latter while using purchase to avoid the former.

This type of person is pretty stubborn. I would like him to take stock, own up, and plainly stop doing what he is doing. For the sake of the animals. Of his own volition. Do I think that will happen without some kind of strong deterrent? I do not. Do I think that will happen if he gets paid for what he has been doing? I do not.

People could get into this mental space where one half-solution that is not a perfect whole solution is purported to be bad so the proponents of the other half-solution that is not a perfect whole solution can go on considering themselves to be the better and more righteous people. This could be applied to either of the half-solutions. I see both half-solutions as having functional merits and demerits and parties subscribing to either half-solution being good people who are trying to tackle things the way they think is best overall - even if they are not in agreement on which half-solution to choose.

...there is no way I could ever condone any actions that allowed poor defenceless creatures to just starve, suffer and die.

Every time we do not buy an animal that we think will otherwise die from inadequate care (think of how many sickly ones you might see at a table or in an online ad), our choice of inaction allows exactly that. Are you going to buy Keven out? Are you going to buy every animal you ever see or become aware of that is in a wretched condition such that they will just starve, suffer, and die in the event that you pass on buying? I will not, so I am "guilty" of that inaction and I am fine saying so. If you stand by the principle I have quoted repeatedly now, I am impressed that you are buying all of these and countless more.