Kyle Hiner--sold me a disfigured Leachie

Originally Posted by dinodaddy

I should've known something was not right from the shed adhesions on the toes...but that just made me want to "rescue" the little one all the more...

Ok I may be misreading this but why on earth would you still pay top dollar for a gecko you felt like you were "rescuing" but then complain about it's less than perfect condition when you received it?

I am not saying there was no wrong doing by the seller, but that one line where you say you wanted to "rescue" the little one more because you saw stuck shed prior to buying makes me wonder about your motives in general.

I'm also just a bit confused after seeing the pics that the seller sent you. I noticed immediately the same deformity in those pics as the pics that the buyer posted. And not just because I knew what to look for. I could tell that the leg and foot were not right in the seller's pics. Buying a reptile that just has some pieces of stuck shed on it,to me at least, doesn't spell "rescue". I've taken in true rescues. Snakes that had been living in their own feces and sheds for months,snakes totally covered in mites,dragons with severe MBD and missing whole limbs. And I didn't pay a dime to do it,either. Those are rescue reptiles. Don't get me wrong! If you didn't notice the deformity and the seller was aware of said deformity(which it's obvious from all pics that they had to have been aware) then I would also want my money back and be able to send the animal back. But if you're now saying you noticed things wrong with it before purchase and wanted to "rescue" it,then I'm kindda iffy.

Originally Posted by MinLynn

I'm also just a bit confused after seeing the pics that the seller sent you. I noticed immediately the same deformity in those pics as the pics that the buyer posted. And not just because I knew what to look for. I could tell that the leg and foot were not right in the seller's pics. Buying a reptile that just has some pieces of stuck shed on it,to me at least, doesn't spell "rescue". I've taken in true rescues. Snakes that had been living in their own feces and sheds for months,snakes totally covered in mites,dragons with severe MBD and missing whole limbs. And I didn't pay a dime to do it,either. Those are rescue reptiles. Don't get me wrong! If you didn't notice the deformity and the seller was aware of said deformity(which it's obvious from all pics that they had to have been aware) then I would also want my money back and be able to send the animal back. But if you're now saying you noticed things wrong with it before purchase and wanted to "rescue" it,then I'm kindda iffy.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the OP said, "I should've known something was not right from the shed adhesions on the toes...but that just made me want to "rescue" the little one all the more..."

This isn't the same as saying (as you implied) "I noticed THINGS wrong with it before purchase and wanted to "rescue" it."

The fact of the matter is we sometimes see an animal that strikes a chord in us; I have. For example: I once found a beautiful, awesome, crazy-looking Pastel female. I paid over a grand for her and considered her worth it. She died less than a year later from septic infections possibly gotten from the bites/burns that she had suffered before I got her. In hindsight, I SHOULD HAVE KNOWN SOMETHING COULD HAVE BEEN WRONG from those bites... but she was beautiful, and she looked healthy and I knew she would be fine with me......

This is the way I read the OP's post and the tone that I read in it.

Hope this makes sense.

Oh,it totally makes sense! That's why I said,if she hadn't noticed the deformity in the pics and obviously the person selling the leachie would HAVE to have known there was a deformity,then by all rights she deserves a refund. I just noticed the deformity in the seller's pics as well as the OP's pics. Of course,that doesn't mean the OP noticed them at all and only saw the shed pieces. And by saying "things" I surely didn't mean to make it sound as if she also noticed the deformity in the seller's pic. I don't know. I guess with me,if I have a gut feeling about something,I tend to go with my gut when it comes to dropping a large amount of money,and I probably would've asked for some better,clearer pics. But that's just me. And I'm not suggesting that everybody should do that.

I think you are confused about the differences between genetic and nutritional deformities, but that is ok......it does not matter to me whether you choose to add the stress of breeding 2 years down the road or not so not need to respond back with some witty retort....hopefully you get a refund for that misrepresented purchase.
06-30-2010 05:36 AM

certain genetics/lines have a proclivity for nutritional issues--i.e.-Troeger Koghis underbite. But this Pine line produces healthy fully formed babies. I did notice the toe adhesions--from the sellers pics; the leg looked relatively normal, I didn't think it was anything wrong until I received and opened the box and saw how twisted she was. I was expecting a fully formed 'pink' pine leachie who just needed a little more humidity. I wouldn't send her back to him if he refunded me double, I just wanted him to meet me halfway, considering the undisclosed (and then denied) issues. I am not out for blood here...since it was the only leachie he had ever kept; maybe he thought thats how leachies are supposed to look, but if the shoe were on the other foot, I would've immediately given a full refund and apology, without question. We are humans and we all make mistakes, but to deny, accuse and belittle is no way to deal with an unhappy customer. I'm pretty sure I won't ever see a penny back from Kyle--my "refund" is karmic: it's in all the beautiful, happy and healthy animals I am lucky enough to have in my life.

Brian Grussing
(male)

I'm SO sorry for saying she! I knew you're a male but for some reason kept typing "she"! That's what staying up 23 hours straight will get you!

no worries, it is rather confusing, since both the gecko and the person who produced it are female, but Kyle and I (OP) are both male.

Sorry for juming in on an old thread, but i came across it through an other board.

First of, the deformities in the sellers pics arent that obvious, it could be that the toes of the right foot were just bend under. Specially since they are blurry and from an difficult angle i would have also thought that it is fine besides the stuck shed. But i guess i would have asked for better pics before sending money. If those pics on the jeans are from the seller, then its obvious now that the animal wanst healthy when he sold it, and he should have noticed, if he checked the animal before shipping like he said.

2ndly, i dont know how it is in the USA but in Europe 2.0 blub means, it is just daylight color, no UVA or UVB, so when caring for an animal that seems to have had a severe case of MBD, you should use UV light and therefore use an 5.0 bulb. Additionally to proper supplementation.

3rdly, as the buyer intends to i think it is the right thing to not breed such an animal anymore, because complications could show up. Like having MBD again (because of egg production), or she may get eggbound.

greets

Ingo

Ingo,
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Sorry that you had issues with Kyle. I live in Winter Haven and got a tegu from him about a month ago. He was a great guy and his animals were very well taken care of. I cant vouch for him on geckos, but my dealings with him were amazing and I like him as a person... Sorry