Evan Stahl - Sent Me Sick Pine Snakes

I wanted to post my experience with Evan Stahl Reptiles since his reviews are turned off on his facebook business page and I would also like any suggestions you may have for getting this girl back on track.

I'm confused.....you make statements like the one above yet seem extremely flippant and closed-minded to many of the suggestions offered by experienced members here.

If you're not a novice to Pine Snakes, why are you making novice mistakes by feeding a snake that has recently regurgitated so soon? If you've been a member here since 2005 then surely you know how to use the search feature on the BOI. You might've saved yourself a headache by doing so prior to making this purchase.

I've kept and bred pines/gophers for years. Some pine/gophers are notorious for regurge. Once they get into this cycle it's difficult to come out of. I have a 4 foot het pied black pine that can only take small fuzzy rats. Anything larger he will regurge. This has been going on for years. And just a clarification. The flagyl that was recommended is NOT for parasites. Flagyl (metronidazole) is an excellent medication for anaerobic bacteria (most intestinal bacteria). When the temps are not perfect or the meal is too large and an animal goes into a regurge cycle that you can not break, a dose of flagyl will reduce the concentration of intestinal flora and hopefully settle the animal's gut.

Originally Posted by cbaker81

I did not post this to argue with Evan or to spend all my days in this forum..

And you do not have to do either. If reader's opinions/questions counter your basic assertions, you are not required to make an appearance and discuss, but not doing so affects your credibility.

There is a solid minority of BOI posts where the OP presents his/her complaint and follows up with the admonishment to readers not to question anything, 'it's true because I said so, no discussion needed'.

That directive doesn't work here.

Originally Posted by evansnakes

The buyer received the snakes and confirmed that he was happy with them

Originally Posted by cbaker81

There is no way these 2 snakes were eating fuzzy mice for 2 months before coming to me! I would think 2 months of no growth with such large meals would maybe be an indicator to an experienced seller that there is an issue.

And an indicator to a experienced buyer/keeper as well, but Evan says you said you were happy with them and did not contact him further until the male had died.

Evan do you have an email you could post where the OP says he was happy with the critters on receipt?

Originally Posted by cbaker81

I also hate throwing good money after bad.

Well, they are living things.

If you were unable to afford vet care, and you wrote to Evan a month after purchase and after one snake had died, why didn't you take his advice?
And I think had you come here earlier to ask advice on regarding snakes at the time you claim the regurge first took place, there are many who would have been happy to help you and given advice based on experience and you may have positively affected the outcome.

I really don't think any resolution is likely to be made at this point, but I would like to offer some insight to future dealings.

Seller should be made aware of ANY concerns as soon as the animals are received, especially with hatchlings. If they seemed weak, small, malnourished, lethargic, etc., the buyer has no recourse unless it is communicated clearly upon receipt. If both snakes had gone on to thrive, a follow up email is just as easy to send. Seeing as they did not, a clear communication chain would be helpful and much more likely to elicit a resolution.

To those so strongly advocating bringing a weak hatchling colubrid to "a vet", I would echo previous posters is stating that the vast majority of veterinarians are ignorant and inexperienced at best when it comes to reptiles. I have had need in the past to bring animals in for care, and even under the best of circumstances, I was directing the care and educating the staff in many cases. Even experienced "reptile vets" have been a disappointment in my past experience. I know there are some good ones out there, but with the exception of a necropsy, a veterinary visit is certainly not the course of action I would have taken with such a fragile specimen.

Just my $.02.

Originally Posted by MikeCurtin

I really don't think any resolution is likely to be made at this point, but I would like to offer some insight to future dealings.

Seller should be made aware of ANY concerns as soon as the animals are received, especially with hatchlings. If they seemed weak, small, malnourished, lethargic, etc., the buyer has no recourse unless it is communicated clearly upon receipt. If both snakes had gone on to thrive, a follow up email is just as easy to send. Seeing as they did not, a clear communication chain would be helpful and much more likely to elicit a resolution.

To those so strongly advocating bringing a weak hatchling colubrid to "a vet", I would echo previous posters is stating that the vast majority of veterinarians are ignorant and inexperienced at best when it comes to reptiles. I have had need in the past to bring animals in for care, and even under the best of circumstances, I was directing the care and educating the staff in many cases. Even experienced "reptile vets" have been a disappointment in my past experience. I know there are some good ones out there, but with the exception of a necropsy, a veterinary visit is certainly not the course of action I would have taken with such a fragile specimen.

Just my $.02.

Exactly this!

Originally Posted by cbaker81

I should have done more homework first

Yes. You've been on this site for over ten years? Homework is important. Over ten years on this site and surely more years of experience with reptiles than you introduction to Fauna, I would think that your homework would have saved a snake no matter what homework you did here.

Originally Posted by DavidBeard

I'm confused.....you make statements like the one above yet seem extremely flippant and closed-minded to many of the suggestions offered by experienced members here.

If you're not a novice to Pine Snakes, why are you making novice mistakes by feeding a snake that has recently regurgitated so soon? If you've been a member here since 2005 then surely you know how to use the search feature on the BOI. You might've saved yourself a headache by doing so prior to making this purchase.

Y

I can not the image to work on my phone. Could i email it to somebody and have you post it?

Evan's image