Chris McVicar and Randy from New Shed Serpents in OKC, OK

Originally Posted by KingBowser

Hmm, I've never heard of these guys and here I thought I was "in the know" with local herp people. Where in OKC are they located?

They're in South OKC, near Moore.

Originally Posted by russianbaby007

Kelly,

It was wrong of them to advertise her as an Anery if she in fact was not, but part of the blame also falls on you. I am not trying to be harsh, but you stated that you had a chance to see the animal before purchasing her. This means that you knew what she looked like, and agreed to proceed with the sale. I feel that you could have done more research on what a type II anery is supposed to look like so you would not be fooled by their claims. You had a huge benefit by actually being able to see the animals in person before proceeding with any sales, most people don't have that opportunity because they buy animals online. I think that a closer and more detailed inspection is definitely in order for any future animals you may obtain from these people. Personally, I would tell them to take their sickly and misrepresented animals back and give you a refund, then never do business with them again.

Anya Hogan

To be fair, I do know what a type II anery Nic looks like. I have one. This particular Nic was in a distinct dark phase when I saw her and picked her up. After two weeks and a shed, it became evident that she did have some color to her that a type II should not have. I will of course be much more careful in my future dealings though I plan on never dealing with these men again.

Originally Posted by russianbaby007

Then, after you accepted the two additional babies and went to pick them up, you stated that shortly after you got them you noticed mites. Once again, did you not look them over right away?

I think we have all been surprised by mites at least once... I mean, who's to say if the snakes brought in larvae or baby mites? I treat every new snake for mites NOW that I have been through this experience, but it seemed like a waste of time before my first snakemite outbreak. Even the most trained eye can miss a small infestation on a dark snake, or baby mites/mite eggs on any snake.

Chris McVicar of newshedserpents
This is the conversation between me (Chris McVicar) and Kelly.
Kelly 12-2-09
The DH ghost died last night. Dr. **** is doing a necropsy tonight. I’ll let you know when I get results.
Me 12-2-09
K
Me 12-2-09
How is the anery doing
Kelly 12-2-09
He’s kept down pinkies for the past two weeks but I’m still battling the mites. Other than that, he’s good.
Me 12-2-09
Sorry about the mites.
Kelly 12-7-09
Did you get a chance to talk with Randy?
Me 12-7-09
I did talk to him. What would you like?
Kelly 12-7-09
To be honest, I’d like a refund.
Me 12-7-09
How much did we sell the nic to you for?
Kelly 12-7-09
200
Me 12-7-09
Ok. When do you want to meet up and swap?
Kelly 12-7-09
Swap? What are you wanting back?
Me 12-7-09
The snakes
Kelly 12-7-09
When I talked to you about the nic a few months ago, you said I could have either a full refund or the two babies and still keep the Nic. I want to keep the Nic still. As for the anery, he’s not doing well. I’m taking him to Dr. **** again tomorrow.
Me 12-7-09
To get the full $200 we at least want the anery back.
Kelly 12-7-09
How much if I want to keep the anery? I’ve put quite a bit of effort into him.
Me 12-7-09
My thoughts on this are we sold you the initial snake for 200. From your word saying it was a normal we tried to make this right we gave you 2 snakes valued at around 250 together. This exceeded the amount you spent on the original snake. One snake valued at 125 died and we are sorry for that but it still leaves the value in your possession at around 225. We don’t feel we should refund you when the product in your hands exceeds the value we received unless it is a swap.
Kelly 12-7-09
You gave me sick snakes instead of a refund. My collection has been put at risk and I’ll be spending money to find out what happened to the DH ghost. If those snakes were healthy, they’d be worth that much, yes. But they are not. And it was Dr. **** who first posited that the Nic was not anery and he will tell you so himself if you’d like.
Me 12-7-09
I don’t know much about type 2 nics. We bought it as one and thought it was one. If the anery is not doing good we can get it better. Same with the dh. They were eating live for us just fine. Do you want a refund or the snakes.
Kelly 12-7-09
It’s a little late for the DH and I resent the implication that I don’t know how to take care of my snakes. The anery is eating fine for me now though the mites are not going away. He’s seen **** twice so it’s not from lack of care. I’ll keep the snakes.
Me 12-7-09
I was not saying you don’t know how to take care of snakes. We have been doing this for a long time and are good at getting babys to eat. Once again we are very sorry about the mites. Many people have given them to us. Sorry
That was the last time we talked.

To me it seems as if she wants the money and the snakes. If the snakes are so sick why would you want to keep them? You told us that you had only tried f/t on the DH. After it not eating twice for you, you should have let us know or tried live. You did not let us know of any problems with the snakes until the DH died. It was doing just fine on live rats for us. Also I still don’t even know if the nic is not a type 2. We were just going off what you told us. That is why we gave you the DH and anery. Yes the DH died and we are still sorry for that but you still have a sub adult nic and an anery bci that you said is doing good other then the mites. This nic was the only one that we have owed and it was sold to us as a type 2 nic. You had seen and handled it many times on many different occasions before buying it.
Chris McVicar
newshedserpents

I am sorry for your loss and hassle with mites. I am sure they didnt intend on selling you animals with mites, judging from my experiance with the folks.

I have personally dealt with new shed serpents over the summer, at the OKC show. I didnt see any unhealthy snakes on the table, as a matter of fact there were very neat and clean looking animals. I had gotten a pair of 75% dwarf retics, as well as an anery rtb in trade and those snakes were excellent feeders, and in good shape with no mites.

It sounds like a bit of bad luck from both sides. By no means am I taking sides, but it seems like they were stand up people and would work to make things right.

Once again I am sorry for your loss and I hope you guys can work things out.

Originally Posted by twistedbendu

To me it seems as if she wants the money and the snakes. If the snakes are so sick why would you want to keep them? You told us that you had only tried f/t on the DH. After it not eating twice for you, you should have let us know or tried live. You did not let us know of any problems with the snakes until the DH died. It was doing just fine on live rats for us. Also I still don’t even know if the nic is not a type 2. We were just going off what you told us. That is why we gave you the DH and anery. Yes the DH died and we are still sorry for that but you still have a sub adult nic and an anery bci that you said is doing good other then the mites. This nic was the only one that we have owed and it was sold to us as a type 2 nic. You had seen and handled it many times on many different occasions before buying it.
Chris McVicar
newshedserpents

I want to keep the anery because I have put a bit of effort into trying to get him healthy and have become attached. I am not one to ever give up and just give a snake back simply because it's sick. I will fight to get the animal healthy. If I felt that you could have done a better job, I'd have returned them to you. These snakes aren't just breeding stock to me; they're my pets. I only tried f/t on the DH (as stated previously in this thread and as I have stated to you) because she was incredibly weak. I did not feel it prudent to place live prey with her, regardless of the prey's age. You received phone calls from me and one email regarding this issue well before the DH died, not just the text messages you've outlined here. As for the Nic, you are more than welcome to call our veterinarian and ask his opinion. Again, just like I told you before, he was the one who originally stated that the Nic was not anery. I saw the Nic once (possibly twice but I really only remember once) before Randy dropped her off with my boyfriend. Once, maybe twice, does not constitute "many occasions".

Do I feel that I'm due a refund? Yes. The DH ghost and the anery were given in place of the refund and since one is dead and the other is ill, I feel I should be reimbursed. If he wants to deduct a *fair* amount for me keeping the anery, that's fine. I asked how much I could be refunded if I kept him and he never responded.

I've decided to cut my monetary losses and focus on getting the anery better. I only posted this on here because I felt I was given sick snakes and not much was done about it and I wanted others to be aware of this.

Pictures of the snakes in question would be nice. Maybe some vet records? Just a thought. Right now it is just word against word.

Maybe I shouldn't say word against word since new shed serpents seems to be taking your word for it and not arguing about it.

I would just like to see how colored up the nic is and some proof of the vet visits/treatments.

I know Randy Padgett fairly well (have driven down to their place a couple times over the past 6 or so years) and know they would never sell an animal as something it was not intentionally. I've seen the female they believed to be a type 2 and could understand the mistake on their part. The offer of 2 free animals to make up for the mistake shows they wanted to make it right imo. Their setup looks good and the mites I know were a complete accident on their part, something they should have been a little more careful with. With that said I can understand them wanting the animals returned if a refund is to be given, they didn't intend to deceive you to make a sale, Randy replaced a cage that was broken by the buyer and the circumstances involved I don't know a single cage manufacturer who would have even considered replacing it. Hopefully you guys get it worked out.

I have done business with Chris, and Randy for a while now... Heck i think 70% of my collection i have gotten from them... Ever Boa or Retic I have ever purchased from them was in immaculate condition... I have never once had one refuse food, get sick, or act strange... I have also seen the female boa that is in question as the Type II as well, and could see where the confusion came from... I think letting you keep the snake in question, and providing you with two more snakes is a great way to try to mend the issue... i also don't understand why after the first Dr visit you didn't return the animals instead of making more Dr visits... Also I don't know what vet you go too, but i have to agree tube feeding that small of a boa especially multiple times its honestly probably what lead to the bad ending with the boa... I have been to Chris and Randy's MULTIPLE times... Their setups are very professional, and they take great care of the animals... As for the mites, well that can happen with anyone... I have never gotten a snake with mites from Chris or Randy... That isn't to say it isn't possible it could happen, but to be honest mites aren't that big of deal if you just treat for them... I got a pair retic's from a breeder some time ago and they both had mites... Took me about 3 weeks to completely get rid of them... Mites honestly aren't the collection destroyers people think they are if you just take care of em right off the bat...

I think Chris is trying to make it right by offering you a refund if you return the snakes... Asking for the money back and keeping the snakes isn't a fair business transaction to be honest...

Okay guys, here's the thing. Kelly bought a misrepresented animal. It was clearly a mistake, but it was infact misrepresented. At that point, New Shed could have asked for the return of the animal for a full refund. Instead, they offered her the two new snakes as COMPENSATION of the mistake on their part. Basically, it was return the snake for $200, or take $200 worth of animals... virtually making the Nic a "free" snake (so to speak). At this point, the Nic should be off the virtual table, all issues regarding that misrepresentation have been dealt with, and even in a manner that Kelly saw fit (i.e. she accepted the 2 new snakes). So, assuming these two new snakes were what Kelly had "bought" with the $200, I believe she is entitled to a refund of the cost of the DH that died or vet bills adding up to $100. As far as the anery goes, I know she has doubts that it will make as well. Anyone attempting to fault her for giving such copious amounts of veterinary care need to reevaulate why they are in this hobby. I am someone who gets very attached to my animals as well, and when I've had issues in the past, the idea of shipping said animal back to the place where it got so bad isn't an option. I do believe that Kelly should get to keep her misrepresented animal, which at this point was "given" to her per the "settlement" as well as the anery... now, refunds for the DH should also be given, and potentially for the anery as well. Returning this snake to the breeder will do no one any good, as if it cannot survive with the care that Kelly is giving it, it won't survive. I don't think she meant to imply that New Shed is this horrible, mass producing, flipping, blah blah blah.... just that they attempted to right a wrong with another wrong... and what's that saying we all love??