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Old 01-30-2007, 12:25 AM   #1
rickyduckworth
!!!WARNING - girlegirl06@sbcglobal.net - BAD!!!

this person is a man who uses his girlfriend's email address. he lives in oklahoma. i've seen him around for years but never dealt with him until november of this year.

after much negotiating, we agreed on 2.2 cb blacktails, 5.0 mohaves (one was supposedly thin but eating), 2.0 wdb.

i received 2.2 blacktails, 4.1 mohaves and 2.0 wdb. all were SEVERELY DEHYDRATED AND MALNOURISHED to the point of being almost dead. none looked to have eaten in months, all were scarred and some had fresh gashes. the pictures i saw were not of the animals i received. they were quarantined in a location seperate from my own collection.

NONE were eating voluntarily after 1 week and in that time, none were drinking voluntarily. they were in such horrible condition that we had to forcefeed them after the 2nd week.

after 3 weeks, 3.1 mohaves were eating and drinking on their own, 0.1 blacktails was eating voluntarily and 1.0 wdb ate voluntarily. the rest were not eating and required more forcfeeding/hydration to even have a chance. all were literally monitored 24/7 but given an environment as void of stress as possible.

well, as of now, the only remaining animals are 1.1 blacktails, 1.0 wdb and 2.1 mohaves. the mohaves are doing great as of now, the wdb still has problems regurging occasionally and the blacktails still have not eaten voluntarily. ok, i got screwed but still got my money's worth after tons of work THROUGHOUT THE HOLIDAYS. i had a friend who helped a LOT.

well, the potential HUGE ISSUE is this; these animals have shown signs of OPMV infection, 2 of my healthy timbers have since died mysteriously with symptoms of sudden RI followed a few days later by convulsions and death. a few of the animals i got from him that have died have convulsed and shown symptoms of RI mostly in the form of regurgitated mucous/blood. the one blacktail that was doing the best had a seizure and died and went from fine to dead in a few days. 1 mohave was doing great and then suddenly died. another mohave never had a chance. the wdb would eat but regurge no matter what and eventually died.

i've been unable to get a necropsy due to the lack of support of local vets, but last week was able to find help in the form of the university of florida (dr. elliot jacobson and dr. nicely). all i can do now is to wait for anymore deaths. my collection is being treated as infected even though the only animals showing signs of illness are the 1.1 blacktails. they're still alive and in OK health as far as weight and hydration goes, but are regurging bloody mucous on occasion, won't eat and are probably going to die. i can't risk forcefeeding them again in fear of spreading the mystery illness. if anyone else dies, they will be sent to the U of F for a necropsy and a full compliment of tests.

as of now, i'm fully convinced that the illness came directly from these snakes and that the sudden death of my 2 healthy timbers was somehow related to these sick snakes. one of the timbers was CB from my own female and i sold the 3 siblings to others who have all confirmed that they were perfectly healthy and doing great.

the ONLY explanation is the one i have outlined above and when i can prove it, i will. most of my snakes have been in my collection a long time with no issues whatsoever. i'm fully expecting more losses and even a possible total loss.

do NOT deal with this person EVEN IN PERSON. the snakes are misrepresented and he downplays their health or is too stupid to recognize it. i've not asked for a refund or anything because i don't expect to fix this. if my other 20+ snakes have OPMV, then there is nothing he can do nor would i expect him to try anyway. i have a favorite animal, a timber i've had for 7 years now, and if he dies it will be like losing a member of my family to me, however ridiculous that sounds. i'm not sure i'd want to let it go then and i'm not above revenge, however ridiculous THAT sounds.
 
Old 01-30-2007, 12:27 AM   #2
rickyduckworth
there was also a VERY huge shipping discrepancy that i'll not address here. everything about this deal was wrong.
 
Old 01-30-2007, 12:35 AM   #3
DThomas
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickyduckworth
there was also a VERY huge shipping discrepancy that i'll not address here. everything about this deal was wrong.
Then why even mention it? If he shipped any other way than the airlines, it should be mentioned. He puts the entire hobby at risk if he did.
 
Old 01-30-2007, 01:17 AM   #4
rickyduckworth
Quote:
Originally Posted by DThomas
Then why even mention it? If he shipped any other way than the airlines, it should be mentioned. He puts the entire hobby at risk if he did.
your first sentence concedes the fact that i mentioned it so let's leave it at that.

i'm risking my own neck by mentioning any further details simply because i was involved, regardless of exactly how.

put it this way, it's not how i'd ship
 
Old 01-30-2007, 01:35 AM   #5
Rainbowboaman
Quote:
they were quarantined in a location seperate from my own collection.
Did I miss something? You said the above quote yet still your collection got infected? Can you clear up what I missed?
 
Old 01-30-2007, 01:44 AM   #6
rickyduckworth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbowboaman
Did I miss something? You said the above quote yet still your collection got infected? Can you clear up what I missed?

this shipment of animals was kept in the quarantine room at my friend's place. my animals are at my place. i get my rodents from him and his setup is better suited to what these snakes needed AND he is always home and could keep an eye on them while i was working.

as of right now, i can only look at the obvious similarity in the deaths of my 2 perfectly healthy timbers and the sickly shipment and assume they're related. it'd be one heck of a coincidence for them to die the same way as the sick animals and NOT be related. in 2002 i had some WC edb's come in with a few parasites, but that's as sick as anything has been and that was at a completely different location. most of my animals are CB and all were perfectly healthy until this shipment. my friend's snakes have yet to show symptoms other than his large timber not eating for 6 weeks now. it went from garbage disposal to just NOT eating a thing recently. he's had it 15 years and yeah, it may just be old but only time will tell.

i honestly hope that nothing else dies and the only thing i can ever prove is that i was shipped mistreated snakes, but we'll see.

i wasn't so concerned until my 2 healthy snakes suddenly died. i had no way to preserve either specimen and could simply do fecals (clean) and do a half-ass necropsy on my own. since then, i've found help at the U of F and am prepared to have the next dead animal tested immediately.

that's where i'm at now.
 
Old 01-30-2007, 11:27 AM   #7
Jim O
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickyduckworth
i'm not above revenge, however ridiculous THAT sounds.
It's beyond ridiculous. It's plain stupid, and even more so to state it in a public forum.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rickyduckworth
there was also a VERY huge shipping discrepancy that i'll not address here. everything about this deal was wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickyduckworth
i'm risking my own neck by mentioning any further details simply because i was involved, regardless of exactly how.
Yes, you are at risk just mentioning it. Think twice next time before you post something you cannot retract. You have admitted to violation of the Lacey act and being a party to endangering employees of whatever carrier handled your animals.

I also do not understand how snakes in a quarantine facility in a remote location could have infected a relatively closed collection. This doesn't in any way excuse the seller for his part in this, whose side of this I'd also like to hear. What was the seller's guarantee, and why did you even keep the shipment once it was received?
 
Old 01-30-2007, 11:50 AM   #8
The BoidSmith
Quote:
I also do not understand how snakes in a quarantine facility in a remote location could have infected a relatively closed collection.
Because sometimes people forget that quarantining animals does not just mean housing them in a different room or location. It means not allowing the person(s) that work in one facility visit the other or vice versa. It means showering before going into the other facility, wearing gloves and disinfecting oneself thoroughly after touching anything. Quarantine is more about the precautionary measures that people who work with the animals take, than about the distance the animals are kept from each other.

Regards.
 
Old 01-30-2007, 12:20 PM   #9
rickyduckworth
1. only if you assume that i meant doing something illegal or malicious. don't assume.

2. again, assuming that they were shipped in the manner you're suggesting. don't assume.

3. i'm sure there is quite a bit about disease you don't understand. it is completely possible to have carried an illness on my clothing and it's possible that it was unrelated. similar symptoms, same outcome, kind of odd.

why'd i keep them? he denied sending sick snakes and i was hellbent on getting them healthy. if some didn't make it, i still would have come out ok. i didn't expect half to die from a mysterious illness. paypal would have done nothing because years ago, i got back 17 cents from the $300 i lost. i don't expect to recover my losses, but only wanna warn others.

he's constantly dealing on vr.org
 
Old 01-30-2007, 12:26 PM   #10
rickyduckworth
Quote:
Originally Posted by The BoidSmith
Because sometimes people forget that quarantining animals does not just mean housing them in a different room or location. It means not allowing the person(s) that work in one facility visit the other or vice versa. It means showering before going into the other facility, wearing gloves and disinfecting oneself thoroughly after touching anything. Quarantine is more about the precautionary measures that people who work with the animals take, than about the distance the animals are kept from each other.

Regards.
exactly, my practices may not have been sound enough. lesson learned. i washed but can't promise i never went in there with dirty clothes on. could have been in my hair. snakes don't go from healthy to dead in days though. these are similar to other opmv cases.
 

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