Spectacular Radio Show on Keeper's Rights & Fights

noahboy- Are you telling me you can go this weekend and buy an mini gun to attach to your hummer? Well, only in Ohio that is. Okay. How much can you get me an m-4 or rpg for? What's a 40mm run up there? Why need gun stores if you have no registration? Why not just buy all of your guns off of the streets?
You are also trying to say that using a snake to threaten or intimidate someone should not be a crime and does nothing to harm a unwilling individual, the animal and the reptile keeping community? I like that in there as it is in there for boneheads who want to do stupid stuff that gets on local news channels in bad ways. But you don't have a problem with that do ya?
Maybe you partake in intimidating people with reptiles to watch 'em squirm. Maybe you have plenty of bricks on your aquariums and don't want to change your 'secure caging'?
Again, show me where you have the RIGHT to keep reptiles first. It's a privilege. Like driving a a car. Or let me guess....you don't have to have car insurance in Ohio right? Because that would force you to buy a product and that is unconstitutional and you know your rights.
You also want to disavow the fact these animals can pose bodily harm. Can you get a 1/2 grown burm off by yourself if it misses at feeding time? Just because they do not hurt as many people as dogs doesn't make them corn snakes.Tell me to do research while I do my homework? I haven't been in school for decades.
BTW- My research has found you do have to have a permit to carry a handgun. Looks like they're already started takin your rights in between posts. Better get them militia boys, cause by your logic if you have to have a permit to carry concealed; they're gonna ban all guns next week!
http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbys...gunlaws_oh.htm

Originally Posted by Taking Up Serpents

noahboy- Are you telling me you can go this weekend and buy an mini gun to attach to your hummer? Well, only in Ohio that is. Okay. How much can you get me an m-4 or rpg for? What's a 40mm run up there? Why need gun stores if you have no registration? Why not just buy all of your guns off of the streets?
You are also trying to say that using a snake to threaten or intimidate someone should not be a crime and does nothing to harm a unwilling individual, the animal and the reptile keeping community? I like that in there as it is in there for boneheads who want to do stupid stuff that gets on local news channels in bad ways. But you don't have a problem with that do ya?
Maybe you partake in intimidating people with reptiles to watch 'em squirm. Maybe you have plenty of bricks on your aquariums and don't want to change your 'secure caging'?
Again, show me where you have the RIGHT to keep reptiles first. It's a privilege. Like driving a a car. Or let me guess....you don't have to have car insurance in Ohio right? Because that would force you to buy a product and that is unconstitutional and you know your rights.
You also want to disavow the fact these animals can pose bodily harm. Can you get a 1/2 grown burm off by yourself if it misses at feeding time? Just because they do not hurt as many people as dogs doesn't make them corn snakes.Tell me to do research while I do my homework? I haven't been in school for decades.
BTW- My research has found you do have to have a permit to carry a handgun. Looks like they're already started takin your rights in between posts. Better get them militia boys, cause by your logic if you have to have a permit to carry concealed; they're gonna ban all guns next week!
http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbys...gunlaws_oh.htm

Ignore it.
If he cares so much about his friends good reputation, he should get on the BOI and start looking at all the inquiry threads about Terry's shop. There are some pretty awful things being said about it. They came pretty late to the party, some of those threads are years old, with new ones as early as this year.

I think I'm pretty much done here. I said what I needed to say, or felt I needed to, and look! I even stirred up a fan!
I have faith in other responsible keepers of like mindset. I think we all know where to draw the line, more or less. We just need to get in there and do it.

Originally Posted by noahboy

And to Taking up Serpents; here in Ohio we do not have a 7-day waiting period to buy a firearm. We also do not have gun registration. Also, in the good 'ole USA we are able to legally buy and own ordinance (cannons as you call them). Machine guns and suppressors are legal too!! Oh my!!! That is Federal law (National Firearms Act of 1934). Unless, of course, if locally you have allowed your Constitutionally guaranteed rights to be taken away. Or if you are a felon...hmmm. Get your facts straight (read this as do your homework) before you spread more misinformation.

Sorry, but this is rather misleading. It is not anywhere near as easy as you imply..

Q: What are the required transfer procedures for an individual who is not qualified as a manufacturer, importer, or dealer of NFA firearms?ATF Form 4 (5320.4) must be completed, in duplicate. The transferor first completes the face of the form. The transferee completes the transferee’s certification on the reverse of the form and must have the “Law Enforcement Certification” completed by the chief law enforcement officer.

The transferee is to place, on each copy of the form, a 2-inch by 2-inch photograph of the transferee taken within the past year (proofs, group photographs or photocopies are unacceptable). The transferee’s address must be a street address, not a post office box. If there is no street address, specific directions to the residence must be included.

If State or local law requires a permit or license to purchase, possess, or receive NFA firearms, a copy of the transferee’s permit or license must accompany the application. A check or money order for $200 ($5 for transfer of “any other weapon”) shall be made payable to ATF by the transferor. All signatures on both copies must be in ink.

Fingerprints also must be submitted on FBI Form FD-258, in duplicate. Fingerprints must be taken by a person qualified to do so, and must be clear and classifiable. If wear or damage to the fingertips do not allow clear prints, and if the prints are taken by a law enforcement official, a statement on his or her official letterhead giving the reason why good prints are unobtainable should accompany the fingerprints.

Forward the completed application and appropriate tax payment to the Bureau of ATF, National Firearms Act Branch, P.O. Box 530298, Atlanta, GA 30353-0298.

Transfer of the NFA firearm may be made only upon approval of the ATF Form 4 by the NFA Branch. If the application is approved, the original of the form with the cancelled stamp affixed showing approval will be returned to the applicant. If the tax application is denied, the tax will be refunded.

Upon approval of the ATF Form 4, the transferor should transfer the firearm as soon as possible, since the firearm is now registered to the transferee.

[26 U.S.C. 5812, 27 CFR 479.84-86]

You are comparing apples and oranges. NFA weaponry (machine guns, suppressors, DD, ordinance, etc.) are class III and of course need registered via a form 4 as Rich has provided. BTW the wait time for a form 4 is around 6 months right now. This registration also requires you to give up your RIGHT to search. Registration of your herps may also require you to give up your RIGHT to search. This is the registration REQUIREMENT (the law) for native herps already in place in Ohio. You will give up your RIGHT to search. ODNR can come into your property at any time without cause, without warrant just because you choose to keep a native herp.

Once gain Taking up Serpents is twisting words around to mislead folks. The permit is for CONCEAL carry. Omitting just one word has totally changed the entire meaning. In Ohio you DO NOT need a permit to purchase a handgun. You DO NOT need to wait 7 days. There is the federal insta-check system in place. Just to make sure you are not a felon and the like. It's OK to be wrong, just don't lie to try to get your own way.

If you look at just about any issue, registration schemes eventually lead to confiscations. Prohibitions haven't worked either. Please study the history of these measures. The eventual outcome is not what any of us want.

Originally Posted by Taking Up Serpents

noahboy- Are you telling me you can go this weekend and buy an mini gun to attach to your hummer? Well, only in Ohio that is. Okay. How much can you get me an m-4 or rpg for? What's a 40mm run up there? Why need gun stores if you have no registration? Why not just buy all of your guns off of the streets?
You are also trying to say that using a snake to threaten or intimidate someone should not be a crime and does nothing to harm a unwilling individual, the animal and the reptile keeping community? I like that in there as it is in there for boneheads who want to do stupid stuff that gets on local news channels in bad ways. But you don't have a problem with that do ya?
Maybe you partake in intimidating people with reptiles to watch 'em squirm. Maybe you have plenty of bricks on your aquariums and don't want to change your 'secure caging'?
Again, show me where you have the RIGHT to keep reptiles first. It's a privilege. Like driving a a car. Or let me guess....you don't have to have car insurance in Ohio right? Because that would force you to buy a product and that is unconstitutional and you know your rights.
You also want to disavow the fact these animals can pose bodily harm. Can you get a 1/2 grown burm off by yourself if it misses at feeding time? Just because they do not hurt as many people as dogs doesn't make them corn snakes.Tell me to do research while I do my homework? I haven't been in school for decades.
BTW- My research has found you do have to have a permit to carry a handgun. Looks like they're already started takin your rights in between posts. Better get them militia boys, cause by your logic if you have to have a permit to carry concealed; they're gonna ban all guns next week!
http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbys...gunlaws_oh.htm

1. Yes I think I could get a 1/2 grown Burmese off me
2. How did it happen to begin with? No permit system is going to protect someone from there self.

Do we need laws to protect you from yourself? A burmese python is not a danger to humans. You were at a far higher risk driving over to pick up the food for him. There are far more unregulated dangers that occur daily far more woresome than someones Burmese Python

I haven't heard about anyone going to rob the corner liquer store using a python.

I'm not going to go back and forth over the gun laws in this nation. You want to say you can get anything in the US without hassle and when shown otherwise it turns to "oh, just my state". You say apples and oranges, I say nit picking. My whole point with the analogy was that we have a right to bare arms, not reptiles. If that right to bare can be regulated, our privileges (keeping and driving) most definitely can. Anyway......

In all no regulations is what put Ohio in the cross-hairs of AR groups. That is why they targeted the keepers in Ohio. The HSUS was making a move on pork farmers and egg producers as well. Pacelle said "we want to eliminate exotic animal ownership. The state wants to control it". Words for words from a Canton paper after Mazzola but before Thompson died. They have millions and Pacelle is a registered lobbyist with dozens of lawyers backing him. Do you really think that just saying no to a ban and threatening Ohio legislators that you will have them fired will make it go away? That whole "I pay your salary" argument huh? I hear of people using that on cops. Doesn't go to well. It's a lot of risk to say you want no rules or laws so you can keep venomous with no bite protocol and you will never have to put a lock/latch on an enclosure?
This whole attitude is what put the focus on Ohio's exotic laws. You still want to continue a broken process that lead to AR on your doorstep? Why not fresh tactics?
If you wnat all or nothing chances are you will get it. But not the way you want.

Yes there are more dangerous things than big snakes or hots. That's a no brainer. But the focus is on those animals. AR doesn't care about facts. To think dropping all the facts in our favor in front of them will slow them down is naive. They will lie and sensationalism and media hype are in their favor. They still try to use the USGS report after being debunked by 11 independent studies. The are irrational. You can't reason or negotiate with it. And no one is on our side, contrary to what others have said.
I have advocated the NC model and there is no permit, chipping or registration or licenses. If putting that in place can stop a ban or future bans then I am all for it. It's common sense practices. Keep hots in locking/latching enclosures and have a list of species kept and what their anti-venom is visible in the room so if EMS finds you face down, you have a chance. If that is too much to ask for someone to keep hots then they shouldn't have them to begin with.
Basically, if an AR group like Born Free comes back to NC we have a new reptile law in place. There's no reason for lawmakers to listen to them in regards to reptile law. They also know the ARK as the 'go-to guys' for herp law and information.
This is all state law of course. Like Ohio county and city ordinances can ban animals. There are places in Ohio that do, it's just not statewide. Isn't it Cincinnati that has a large constrictor ban? What was the plan to fight that one? How did that ever happen if Ohio is gung-ho anti-compromise and anti-regulation? Did you tell the mayor you'll fire him?

Originally Posted by noahboy

You are comparing apples and oranges. NFA weaponry (machine guns, suppressors, DD, ordinance, etc.) are class III and of course need registered via a form 4 as Rich has provided. BTW the wait time for a form 4 is around 6 months right now. This registration also requires you to give up your RIGHT to search. Registration of your herps may also require you to give up your RIGHT to search. This is the registration REQUIREMENT (the law) for native herps already in place in Ohio. You will give up your RIGHT to search. ODNR can come into your property at any time without cause, without warrant just because you choose to keep a native herp.

Once gain Taking up Serpents is twisting words around to mislead folks. The permit is for CONCEAL carry. Omitting just one word has totally changed the entire meaning. In Ohio you DO NOT need a permit to purchase a handgun. You DO NOT need to wait 7 days. There is the federal insta-check system in place. Just to make sure you are not a felon and the like. It's OK to be wrong, just don't lie to try to get your own way.

If you look at just about any issue, registration schemes eventually lead to confiscations. Prohibitions haven't worked either. Please study the history of these measures. The eventual outcome is not what any of us want.

Well, the NICS check is your asking PERMISSION from the government to exercise a right clearly identified as being outside of the jurisdiction of the US government in the Bill of Rights attached as amendments to the US Constitution. If they can say NO and stop you from taking possession of a firearm, then that completely guts the Second Amendment in both word and intent.

And in my personal opinion, ANY law that has written into it a requirement that you MUST give up a basic Constitutionally guaranteed right in order to comply with that law, then that law is blatantly unconstitutional.

But obviously, the government is not concerned about obeying the Constitution, as there is absolutely NO penalty levied against them for violating it at every turn. If YOU are the victim of an unconstitutional law, YOU have to pay the attorney fees to prove that point. Whereas the members of Congress who penned, considered, and voted that law into being merely sic US federal attorneys on you and the case, paid for by YOUR taxes. It doesn't cost them a dime to try to defend their case that they were not violating OUR Constitutional rights with their efforts.

And for the record, a "right" that requires a permit, license, fee, or permission, is NOT a right at all.

Originally Posted by WebSlave

Well, the NICS check is your asking PERMISSION from the government to exercise a right clearly identified as being outside of the jurisdiction of the US government in the Bill of Rights attached as amendments to the US Constitution. If they can say NO and stop you from taking possession of a firearm, then that completely guts the Second Amendment in both word and intent.

And in my personal opinion, ANY law that has written into it a requirement that you MUST give up a basic Constitutionally guaranteed right in order to comply with that law, then that law is blatantly unconstitutional.

But obviously, the government is not concerned about obeying the Constitution, as there is absolutely NO penalty levied against them for violating it at every turn. If YOU are the victim of an unconstitutional law, YOU have to pay the attorney fees to prove that point. Whereas the members of Congress who penned, considered, and voted that law into being merely sic US federal attorneys on you and the case, paid for by YOUR taxes. It doesn't cost them a dime to try to defend their case that they were not violating OUR Constitutional rights with their efforts.

And for the record, a "right" that requires a permit, license, fee, or permission, is NOT a right at all.

i agree with this and i was agitated when i heard crutchfield say that its a privilege to own these animals not a right. i think when you start talking about rights verses privileges ifs a fine line and how do you differentiate between the two,and to say privileges can be taken away, well so can rights. and also to what extent can either or should either be taken away. in society its almost like we have rights until the state wants to take them away and then our rights become privileges. i also think we mite need to adopt a set of categorical rights to understand this matter ( and im sure there already a set but i dont know of them).

Crutchfield was right though. No matter how agitated you get. Freedom of speech. Basic right, correct? When my speech threatens, harms or slanders you then that freedom is out the window and I am subject to police action and a trial. If I call you at 3am threatening you or put posters all over town saying lies about you or your business; you can nail me in court if I ma found guilty. So you have that right to speak your mind until it threatens the safety or lively hood of another.
It is a privilege to keep these animals. It is not a right. It is a freedom, a liberty, the pursuit of my happiness. But if a lawmaker or judge finds any of those things to be of risk to a 3rd party public, they can pull the plug. No one's rights, freedoms or privileges may trump the right to not live in fear or have their safety in jeopardy. Politicians see it that way. Politicians are the ones we want to know majority of us are responsible. HSUS doesn't care. Truth was never a factor for them. Idiology was. That is why it is best to show them we are responsible and step up to the challenge of self regulating and writing our own rules. We won't get everything we want every time. But the goal is to make it so our opponents get as little as possible campaigning against us. Maybe if more keepers treated it as a privilege and not an entitlement there would be more respect and responsibility. Again, I'm not for permits, licenses and registrations. I know they just make it near impossible to acquire them in most cases. That's how it used to be here.

No one is entitled to being able to own an animal by any federal document. Law makers want a solution to what the public outcry is over, if we don't give it to them you know who will and it results in black market animals who suffer and "one generation and out" for future keepers.