Wrong sex discovered 82 days after purchase...

I purchased a really nice baby Ball Python as a female for $275 back on the 12th of June, this year.    

I have now discovered that it is a male.

It's been less than 90 days.  Do you think that the seller should be responsible (let me return the animal and refund my money) since the animal was misrepresented?

BTW, the animal has quadrupled in bodyweight and is in PERFECT health.

Hi I am Sam Craver of Royal Propagation.  I am the seller of this animal to Anthony.  I recieved an email from Anthony today saying he sold the animal to another party, shipped the animal to this party, they sexed it and it turns up as a male.  I sold the animal to Anthony as a female as that is what it probed to be for me, my mistake.  I guarantee my animals for 48 hours.  If anyone has a problem with an animal they purchased form me, they need to contact me with the complaint within 48 hours of them recieving the animal.  Anthony contacts me 82 days later with his complaint, and after he had sold the animal to someone else and shipped the animal to someone else.  I am not here to try to get a not guilty verdict, I am just here stating my policy and giving you the whole story.  I am guilty of making a mistake in sexing the animal, it happens, but I am not going to be held responsible 3 months later and after is changed hands from Anthony to another buyer.  I also offered to resell the animal for Anthony and send him what ever comes in for it.  But after 3 months I will not refund any cash.

Thanks for your time, and thanks for reading.

Sam Craver
Royal Propagation

Anthony,

First off Once you sell an animal any guarantee between you and the person you purchased from are over. You are now the guarantor to your buyers and are the one responsible.
 I personally would have doubled checked the sex on the snake as soon as I received it myself to be sure. You had 48 hours to do any returns or file any complaints and did not therefore they have no liabilty in this situation. Their policy is 48 hours, you knew this policy and agreed to it. I am sorry that your snake turned up to be a male, but from what I gather it was a hatchling when you purchased it? Hatchling and small Ball Pythons are notorious hard to sex accurately until they get size and body weight on them.

You know Sam, I was trying to do you a favor and leave your name out of this, so as not to tarnish your reputation, simply because I liked you and you were a nice guy to deal with.  

I also think that's fairly generous of me after what happened just a couple weeks ago.  

The fact is, snakes don't change sex during shipping, no matter how many times they are shipped.  

Add to that, the snake is eating rats and is four times bigger than when I got it.  I think it's only fair that you make good on this.

The animal was misrepresented, plain and simple.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Rob @ RK Reptiles @ Sep. 04 2002,13:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Anthony,

First off Once you sell an animal any guarantee between you and the person you purchased from are over. You are now the guarantor to your buyers and are the one responsible.
spam_I personally would have doubled checked the sex on the snake as soon as I received it myself to be sure. You had 48 hours to do any returns or file any complaints and did not therefore they have no liabilty in this situation. Their policy is 48 hours, you knew this policy and agreed to it. I am sorry that your snake turned up to be a male, but from what I gather it was a hatchling when you purchased it? Hatchling and small Ball Pythons are notorious hard to sex accurately until they get size and body weight on them.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I did try popping the animal, and it appeared to be a female, but yes it was a hatchling, so I wanted to avoid probing it, because I trusted Sam's word.

I just wanted to get some opinions, because it is a shaky topic, and I wasn't sure what everyone thought about something of this nature.

I agree that it's been a long time, and yes, the animal has changed hands. &nbsp;But, I'm not talking about a health guarantee...I'm talking about the animal not being what it was supposed to be.

I will tell the story of what happened a few weeks ago Anthony. &nbsp;

Anthony had 4 female balls for sale on KS.com. &nbsp;I emailed Anthony telling him I would take them, but I was out of town until the following Friday. Anthony said he would hold them for me if I was sure I could send him the money. While I was away, 2 money orders were supposed to me mailed to me for snakes I had sold. &nbsp;When I got home no money had arrived, I immedietly emailed Anthony that I could not purchase the snakes due to the money for my snakes not showing up and I didnt have the funds to send Anthony. &nbsp;Now I know I probably should not have emailed him saying I would take them without having the money in hand to send him, and I appologized many times for bailing out on that deal with him. &nbsp;But what was I going to do if I didnt have the cash to send him now?

Anthony I am sorry about backing out on that deal, but I just didnt have the cash at that time to send you without the money orders not showing up. &nbsp;I should have told you that and I again appologize for that, but this is a whole other can of worms. &nbsp;And just for your information no money has still shown up and the snakes are still sitting here.

Sam Craver

Here's my 2 cents on the matter. Snakes being mis-sexed is so common in this business that it goes without saying. When you purchase a snake you have within the guaranteed time (usually 1-2 days) to ascertain the health and the sex of the animal. I have made this mistake and it reflects badly on the seller. When I get a snake in the first thing I do is look over the general appearance of the animal to make sure it looks and acts healthy. The second is sex the animal. I made the mistake of sending out a mis-sexed animal once and don't want to do it again. I got a snake in trade and turned around and sold it without checking the sex. I was the one who looked bad. It is the responsibility of the buyer to make sure they receive all that they expected within the alloted time frame. In this case Anthony I think the responsibility lies with you because of the time involved and the fact that you yourself also mis-sexed the animal. I am not trying to start a war here but you asked the question and I have to agree with Sam here.

Mike Jones

I would say no the original seller has no obligation to make good on a gender issue after the 48 hours, much less almost 3 months. &nbsp;Probing is a very simple procedure and easily done within 48 hours either by the purchasor or a vet or other qualified person if the purchasor cannot probe his own animals. &nbsp;Popping is notoriously inaccurate once the animal has any kind of age to it because the muscle control increases, preventing the popping of the hemipenes in males - causing an incorrect female assumption. &nbsp;If I have purchased an animal that I intend to breed, I always check the gender myself by probing. &nbsp;Even before I purchased my own set of probes and learned to do it myself, I took the animal to someone qualified and had them probe the animal in question. &nbsp;Yes, mistakes can still be made with probing very young animals, that is just an inherent part of the hobby, but it is much less likely with probing versus popping.

Even with inaccurate sexing, misrepresentation is more in relation to health or genetic issues. &nbsp;Mis-sexing is so prevalent, especially with hatchlings and neonates, that it hardly counts as misrepresentation in my book or that of the majority of other herpers. &nbsp;It is just a given when purchasing young animals that you may or may not get what you thought. &nbsp;Also, once the animal has been sold to another party, the original seller has no responsibility in that sale. &nbsp;It is solely on the shoulders of the person currently selling that animal. &nbsp;

Dianne

Anthony,

Ok did they say it was Guaranteed sexed 100% female? I doubt it very seriously they did. Popping is very dangerous to a snake, If you popped this snake and it popped as female then obviously you did something wrong if it now probing as male. If you popped it as female than that in itself let them off from any refund. You yourself say it popped as female so you were satisfied then and sold it as a female. Also You very well could have permanantly damaged the snake in the process of popping it. As for Hatchlings and babies/small Ball Pythons I visually sex them and have been 80+% correct. But I never sell them as 100% sexed animals either. &nbsp;As far as him refunding you any money, I am sorry but after this amount of time it is not going to happen. It would not happen from any other dealer as well.

OK,

First off, nobody has to worry about starting any wars, as I don't feel strongly enough one way or the other to even argue it to that point. &nbsp;This thread has told me all I was looking for. &nbsp;I have never had this happen, and wanted to see what the general consensus was. &nbsp;I was just imagining had this been a pastel, there would be about a $1,000 difference in price...that would definitely be a problem.

But, &nbsp;I never claimed to be right or claimed Sam to be wrong...I just conveyed my thoughts on it, and let you guys decide. &nbsp;This is why I didn't plan to bring Sam's name into this. &nbsp;


So...fair enough, case closed.


Sam, you should've left well enough alone with the thing that happened a couple weeks ago. &nbsp; I told you that I understood, but I wanted you to get the point that I left your name out of this, mainly because I think you're a good guy...even after this AND what happened a couple of weeks ago. &nbsp;The point was, that I think you're an OK guy, and I was trying to avoid making others question your reputation here...and I still am. &nbsp;

If we can ever do business again, I would not let either thing stand in the way...I'll just probe the animals upon arrival next time....twice. lol <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

No hard feelings?