Brandon Griffey

Originally Posted by Kevin S

very true, just so many resident "experts" wont let the parties work it out. Tom Baker made a great point , why is noone upset that the snake was less than a year old and in breeding mode? And no one has said anything about xavier breeding it. He is the one who feed it to the size (700 grams) it is and did bred it. maybe the power feeding and the stress from breeding may have contributed to the issues that the potion had. And no one is asking why xavier bred and sold it, maybe he too is in it for the $$$ and felt he didnt need it any more as it had bred all the females xavier wanted it too?

Why? Because there was no fraud involved, and if Xavier had lost the animal, from his breeding, feeding, etc, it would have been on him and we wouldn't be here. However, the buyer was aware of these issues, youth, breeding, etc (that you just pointed out) and assumed responsibility when he purchased the animal.

The fact of the matter (IMO) is that when dealing with live entities there is no guarantee. The buyer can not be held responsible for selling an OUTWARDLY healthy animal unless PRIOR illness can be proven.

Personally, I would not spend that kind of money on an animal that was bred before being shipped to me. I am also leery about buying grown animals, because there's really no way to know how many times the animal has been bred, whether there were ever any complications and how old the animal actually is. Personally, I prefer to raise my own hatchlings to prevent these kinds of outcomes where possible. Purchasing hatchlings gives the buyer time, and opportunity for de-stressing, observing the health, and quarantining the animal.

We are not keeping the parties from working out anything, but the buyer really screwed his case by:

1. Being caught in untruths, fabrications, exaggerations
2. Not quarantining
3. Not having possession of the animal

Thus unless the report proves a pre-existing condition, he's out of luck.

I don't think it can be any more simple than that.


BTW: I was going to leave the "Power-feeding" implication alone, but wanted to mention that it's not unusual for a yearling to reach those weights without power-feeding.

[quote=Kevin S;1455993wont let the parties work it out. [/QUOTE]


Also, nobody is preventing anything. They are free to contact each other and deal with it themselves. Not one person on this board wields the kind of power you suggest.

Originally Posted by deborahbroadus

Why? Because there was no fraud involved, and if Xavier had lost the animal, from his breeding, feeding, etc, it would have been on him and we wouldn't be here. However, the buyer was aware of these issues, youth, breeding, etc (that you just pointed out) and assumed responsibility when he purchased the animal.

The fact of the matter (IMO) is that when dealing with live entities there is no guarantee. The buyer can not be held responsible for selling an OUTWARDLY healthy animal unless PRIOR illness can be proven.

Personally, I would not spend that kind of money on an animal that was bred before being shipped to me. I am also leery about buying grown animals, because there's really no way to know how many times the animal has been bred, whether there were ever any complications and how old the animal actually is. Personally, I prefer to raise my own hatchlings to prevent these kinds of outcomes where possible. Purchasing hatchlings gives the buyer time, and opportunity for de-stressing, observing the health, and quarantining the animal.

We are not keeping the parties from working out anything, but the buyer really screwed his case by:

1. Being caught in untruths, fabrications, exaggerations
2. Not quarantining
3. Not having possession of the animal

Thus unless the report proves a pre-existing condition, he's out of luck.

I don't think it can be any more simple than that.


BTW: I was going to leave the "Power-feeding" implication alone, but wanted to mention that it's not unusual for a yearling to reach those weights without power-feeding.

untruths, fabrications. "powerfeeding" can you explain what a normal feeding schedual would be and As in my opinion it was power fed to bred for xavier . He did state that he bred it, so the seller was trying to profit on a young male ,as he was selling it as a proven breeder , yet it hadden produced anything. yet most chose to over look this and just "bash" brandon/tom for doing the same. no where did i say i agree with there practices just pointing out " similar situations" the seller and buyer both did.

Originally Posted by DesertRat73

Wow, this really needs to be gone over again? Really?

IF Tom had set the snake aside and allowed it to acclimate properly, there would be little question on how to proceed. As Tom points out, he was well aware that the snake was too young to breed, and aware that it had been raised quickly to do so. He ignored that risk, ignored the snakes need to acclimate, and bred it immediately anyway. He took a calculated risk and lost.

Wow you cant seam to grasp, that what Xavier did may have had something to do with the death of the potion by breeding a young male and powerfeeding. yet no one seams to question that, just that Brandon/Tom are partners in a project and yes they did maybe try to breed it to fast. but in my opinion that wasnt the cause of death. I believe it would have died in Qt.

another thing that comes ot mind is i havent seen Xaviers Record/feeding card. Maybe it had not been eating well while he was breeding it and how long it actually took to gain the size it did 3 months 6 months? the card would help shed a light on this to understand what the potion had been going through, xaviers did state it ate 2 weeks proir but what about before that? most males do go off feed during breeding, maybe it was pushed to far before B/T recieved it.?

Originally Posted by Kevin S

Wow you cant seam to grasp, that what Xavier did may have had something to do with the death of the potion by breeding a young male and powerfeeding. yet no one seams to question that, just that Brandon/Tom are partners in a project and yes they did maybe try to breed it to fast. but in my opinion that wasnt the cause of death. I believe it would have died in Qt.

Re-read the first sentence of my post that you quoted. Xavier raised the snake in the same environment and bred it. You asked Deborah what a normal feeding schedule is, yet you would have us think you understand what power feeding is?

The cause of death isn't the issue. The issue is whether the buyers actions support them getting a refund, which it doesn't because their poor practices leave too many probabilities on their end Hence the first sentence of my post that you quoted. Stop trolling.

Originally Posted by Kevin S

another thing that comes ot mind is i havent seen Xaviers Record/feeding card. Maybe it had not been eating well while he was breeding it and how long it actually took to gain the size it did 3 months 6 months? the card would help shed a light on this to understand what the potion had been going through, xaviers did state it ate 2 weeks proir but what about before that? most males do go off feed during breeding, maybe it was pushed to far before B/T recieved it.?

You are pushing "suppositions" rather than coming to conclusions on the FACTS presented.

One fact that stands out in your supposition is: The animal defecated (there was a picture) after the defecation...the stomach was empty...since the buyer had stated he had NOT fed the animal..it shoots holes in your supposition that the snake was not feeding while with Xavier.

Originally Posted by Xavier

Oh you guys were talking about it feeding, his last feeding dates were 3-08, 3-15, 3-20, & 3-24.

Thanks
Xavier

It's in the second post of the thread Kevin.

Originally Posted by DesertRat73

It's in the second post of the thread Kevin.

that is a few dates where is the card that will show more than just a smal window in time "and 4 meals in just over 2 weeks isnt alot?". As to trolling, I have every right as you. If you dont like my post dont repond

And the cause of death is what matters the most, next to a refund of some sort.

As to the keeping of Ball pythons I have been keeping them for almost 15 years, I might not be an expert but Im more than aware what is and isnt power feeding.

Originally Posted by deborahbroadus

You are pushing "suppositions" rather than coming to conclusions on the FACTS presented.

One fact that stands out in your supposition is: The animal defecated (there was a picture) after the defecation...the stomach was empty...since the buyer had stated he had NOT fed the animal..it shoots holes in your supposition that the snake was not feeding while with Xavier.

wow, thats a pretty big hole. that show 1 maybe 2 meals , what it doesnt do is show the feeding pattern the snake had.