Adenovirus Questions

No, Jean

There are more people with clear colonies, Cheri Smith told me and Ken Robertson on March 10th, 2007 at the Tampa show that she knows "beyond a shadow of a doubt that there are at least a dozen breeders who have clear colonies"

I don't know where or who they are but surely they exist, Cheri told me so.

Please forgive me if this has already been discussed...but a few questions come to mind after reading this and a few other thread on the same subject...

It seems as if no one has tested negative for the virus, and the people that claim to have tested negative are either unwilling to provide info in reference to their negative results or unwilling to provide info as to where their negative results were obtained from, irregardless the mass majority of people that have tested would appear to have gotten positive results, so the assumption most if not all of the dragons here in the USA are infected is a valid assumption. I would think that if 100 animals were tested and 95% of them came back positive.....its safe to say those results can be used to generalize the entire population.

At this point in time, its probably just safer to say that all dragons in the USA have the virus then not.

Lets say they all have it, whats the protocol now?

Allot of people are talking about euthanization or culling off the young, is this what the protocol is? Is there any set way to handle this?

From what I've read and gathered, it doesn't appear that ALL dragons infected are sickly, dieing, lethargic, emaciated animals.....which would lead me personally to believe that they can and will thrive if given the proper care and right conditions.

I had my two beardies tested once with the EM method and they both came up negative. I have no problem with showing, posting or emailing my results to whoever......of course this doesn't mean they don't have Adeno, it just means the one test didn't find it. I will be testing again in the near future, hopefully the results will continue to be negative....there's no rush, I'm not breeding them yet (if ever).

I'm not too worried about someone stealing my results as it's painfully obvious that if they were to be reproduced, eventually it would be found out.

Just to clear this up on this thread, her name is not Chasity, but Cathy Fout from Border Dragons.

Originally Posted by whiskersmom

Chasity is not even Chasity. Her name is Cathy and she was banned last year from BD.org for lying and creating chaos.

A few days ago Chasity PM'd me at BD.org and gave me her email address. When I emailed her for the first time, this is what I received back...............................


Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 16:21:36 -0800
From: "Cathy Fout" <equally_different@inbox.com> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Subject: My spam filter requires verification of your email address
To: sherrisworld********

Hello,

You have reached Cathy Fout.

I'm protecting myself from receiving junk email by using
Challenge/Response Spam Protection.

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just sent me.

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__________________________________

When I received this email, I got a little suspicious and today went to her Bearded Dragon site and looked at her contact page.
This is what it says...................................

Email : borderdragons@gmail.com

Phone : (360)922-0077 or cell (360)393-7026

Snail Mail : Cathy Fout (FFE)

1122 East Badger Rd

Lynden, WA 98264

Physical Location :

1610B Peace Portal Drive

Blaine, WA 98230
________________________________________

http://borderdragons.com/contact.html


If you happen to read this Cathy....SHAME ON YOU! I befriended you and took your side........I can't believe you have no problems with lying to myself and all these people.

Originally Posted by mikey

Looks like Chastity did not even do the EM testing per Lou Ann today. Here's a link to the whole thread. So the only two people claiming to have negative results are starting to be called out. I think it is just a matter of time for Denise to be proven she did not test BLOOD PCR either.

http://www.beardeddragon.org/bjive/v...ic.php?t=49918


Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:03 am** *Post subject: Dragon results



Dear Chasity,


Would you please contact me privately off board at lamiller@uiuc.edu


I can not find these results, actually, I don't even have a fax machine to fax with, nor have I faxed anyone at all in about 2 years.


Lou Ann
_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lou Ann Miller, MT(ASCP)
Service Supervisor
Center for Microscopic Imaging
College of Veterinary Medicine
Rm 1204 VMBSB
2001 S Lincoln Ave
Urbana, IL 61802

Originally Posted by draggintails

No, Jean

There are more people with clear colonies, Cheri Smith told me and Ken Robertson on March 10th, 2007 at the Tampa show that she knows "beyond a shadow of a doubt that there are at least a dozen breeders who have clear colonies"

I don't know where or who they are but surely they exist, Cheri told me so.

I hope so, but it does not look likely. Chime in anytime Cheri...

Alex,

I have a few remaining negative results PCR and EM. That means that those lizards were not shedding virus on the date the fecal was pulled. I just sent in another round last week.

Florida is putting out a paper this week sometime to show prevalence. It will come back over 90% prevalent per Dr. Stacey...he says "many or most bearded dragons are AV positive" I did not believe that at first...I fought it tooth and nail......then I found out that what I had been told of negative colonies were heresay and now I do not doubt Dr. Stacey.

I do know that I went in with a friend from NJ and we imported a dragon bred in Austria within the last few months, not bred off US animals, no US animals in the breeding pool ..we purchased him from a veterinarian, not that this has anything to do with my story, but anyway. The animal had a positive PCR. Impossible to tell who he had contact before, etc, I am so disgusted with this whole mess.

i had a feeling that the numbers are going too rise.i think at the end i think almost all beardies will be positive if not all...so sad but we will have too deal with it and keep on learning more about this virus... i feel for everyone...

The issue which worries and concerns me the most...and it may be JUST ME, but it seems as if this whole adenovirus "scare" is some what a little over exaggerated and the mass paranoia it's creating may be leading to the needless euthanization and culling of otherwise healthy and thriving dragons.

So far based on what has been posted on some of these threads by first hand accounts and quotes from the various Doctors involved, and please correct me if I'm wrong as I've just recently started following some of these threads and researching for myself....

1. There is no absolute test which will prove positive...apparently some dragons can test false negative and possibly vice versa

2. There are no absolute known symptoms associated with this virus, however some of the tests were performed on dragons that were already compromised one way or another and the tests/doctors don't indicate if the adenovirus caused the symptoms or the symptoms were a direct result of some other factors...what it boils down to is some of the sick dragons were tested, positive results were obtained....but no one can say for certainty that the adenovirus was directly at fault and that no other factors could've contributed, yet it seems every time someone reports a dragon is getting sick...its gotta be the adenovirus

3. There are currently no known cures or treatments

4. Some adenovirus dragons are living healthy, productive, and thriving lives

5. There are accounts of adenovirus in other captive and wild populations of dragons worldwide.....this is not a USA specific issue

In my personal opinion...based on those above factors, why anyone would automatically suggest culling or euthanization is beyond me.

Could it be that most if not all dragons may possibly have the adenovirus can, have and will continue to be productive, healthy and thrive with no ill effects?

It doesnt seem to me that anyone has stepped up and claimed that the adenovirus is the "black plague" which should be avoided at all costs because it will lead to the destruction and death of entire collections / populations...well maybe people have made that claim but is there anything to substantiate it?

We're not talking about something like IBD in pythons and boas...something that literally effects the outwardly appearance of a infected animal and then ultimately leads to its demise....no ifs ands or buts, if a python or boas gets IBD.....its ultimate fate will be death whether by the hands of the owner or by nature itself....there is no escape.

Is this how the adenovirus should be perceived? Is there any proof positive that this is the type of problem we're headed towards?

i feel the same way ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I don't know Alex, I didn't have you to talk to when this was going on...I was a mess. Tammy