4 heat packs in a box DEAD SNAKES whos to blame

"I think if I got a large number of orders DOA or dying I would have found a new supplier, something smells fishy and it ain't the tuna."

Richard I dont know how much experience you have running a pet shop, but that kind of statement doesnt seem to show much. I went to three of the "big guys" down in Flordias place just last week myself. I can assure you there isnt much difference between one or the other. Many of the risks are thoose involved with imported reptiles.

Would I love to find a supplier that sends out only stuff to my likeing HELL YES, but so far I havent come close. Ive likely purchased from just about every wholesaler in this business. In my experience they are all the same in the scence that if they get crap, well it rolls down hill if you know what I mean. However I need to supply my shop so you have to take risks.

Mickey,

Did you reach an agreement with Alfredo? It seems that Murphy’s Law hit both of you guys hard on that day. Alfredo doesn’t strike me as an individual that would not rectify this situation. In all honesty I’m hoping this doesn’t hurt your business too bad.

Regards.

Unfourtunately I doubt that anything other then what was stated here will ever come of this.

I tossed and turned all night on this, and honestly it is what it is. I started the thread to get others opinions on the situation. I figured in a few days Alfredo would have contacted me and we would have gone from there. I honestly didnt expect his responce on the thread in the manner it was given.

Had I been a childish jerk as hes trying to play this off, I would have started the thread with XTREME REPTILES ....... Instead I started it poseing the question. I tried to be as upfront about the situation as possible. In the first sentence I stated that I DELAYED THE PACKAGE.

Seriously giveing my past experience with this company and other wholesalers in general, I had a pretty good idea I was up ____ creek with out a paddle. Once I realized there were 4 heat packs in the box I was honestly PISSED that I had even made the first call where I considered the idea the delay was to blame.

Seriously how many people here have had 4 loose heat packs (not taped to lid, not wrapped in newspaper, there was however shredded newspaper packing throught the box to be fair) in a 16 x 16 x 8 box? I have never experienced this in my 10 years in this business, prior to yesterday.

O well it is what it is I guess. It sucks the snakes are dead, more then money, it truely does.

Out of curiosity I am considering doing a couple of test, just to satisfy my own curiosity. Problem is I allready spotted one flaw in my test, I dont have 60 hour heat packs (I believe thats what Alfredo said the red striped ones were). I only have 40 hours. So I may have to wait for my next superior order to perform the test.

There were 4 heat packs in the box, 2 with red stripes, 2 without. As stated the box was 16 x 16 x 8 stryo chest interior. The snakes were packed in the 6" pie delies I believe, likely 48 oz or something like that (approx 4" tall). The snakes were on paper towels. There were 3 snakes in the box.

From memory atleast two of the heat packs were in the bottom corners, and the other two were floating in the middle. Honestly I dont exactly recall that part.

I wonder what the temp in the box would be (ambient, heat pack temp, and 2" from heat pack)
2 hours after packed
4 hours after packed
8 hours after packed
12 hours after packed
16 hours after packed
20 hours after packed
22 hours after packed
24 hours after packed
26 hours after packed

I assume the box was packed at Alfredos around 4 eastern. (3 central). They were finally delivered after the delay at approx 3:30 central the next day. My local temps were at 60 degrees.

My guess is the packs hit optimum temps approx 3-4 hours after packed. By that GUESS even without the delay the snakes would have been in extreme temps 12-14 hours.

Well once I get the right heat packs I will do the test, and photos just for my own curiosity if nothing else. Im also going to put a couple eggs in the box during the test. One inside a deli like a snake would have been, one 2" from a heat pack as a snake very likely could have been, and one on a heat pack as the loose heat pack could have easily slid under the snake. I will of course lable each one prior to not confuse the one on the pack with the others.

Untill then I assume as Alfredo would like, this thread will die. I have nothing new to add on my end untill I run the test. The 3rd snake that did arrive is hanging in, but appears to be very stressed. Im not holding out a ton of hope, but will do my best. Its set up on a misting system, and we have taken further steps to fully hydrate it over the last few days.

I'm interested in the results of your heat pack test. Too much heat will kill a snake faster than getting a snake chilled.

Before you run your flawed test, Now that you mention there was 2 heat packs with 2 red stripes, those are 2 low heat 30 hour heat packs, and 2 40 hour heat packs... If I put 2 30 hours that means there was less heat in the box... So make sure you use it correctly.... Either way any test you run will probably prove nothing... For all we know the fed ex driver may have parked in the direct sun in a small cargo van for a 2 hour lunch...And I have never used a 60 hour heat pack in any package


AlfredoVeloso

Originally Posted by Xtreme Reptiles

Before you run your flawed test

Then why don't you perform an unflawed test?

Originally Posted by Xtreme Reptiles

...And I have never used a 60 hour heat pack in any package AlfredoVeloso

Yeah and you also said you never used 4 heat packs too. I've received hundreds of shipments from 5 different wholesalers where I work and NEVER has any of them used 4 heat packs. In fact all heat packsl have been taped to the lid (2) not 4 and not scattered througout the box like yours were.

Only the box of crickets that had 4 heat packs in it were cooked. BTW when we got them at around 11 a.m. the heat packs were just warm to the touch. So that tells me that the crix were cooked hours before we got them.

To all the people who read this; I have a question for you.

How many heat packs come in the shipments you receive?

I dont know who you are Karen, but I have never sold crickets? and we have used 4 heat packs in our boxes all winter long...So I have no clue as to what you are talking about


AlfredoVeloso

I don't know you either, in fact I don't know anyone on this site. That has nothing to do with cooked snakes.

I never said you sold crickets. Sheesh. What I said was the ONLY box of animals we received that were DEAD had 4 HEAT PACKS in it and that was crickets. It was 0° outside when the crix were shipped from IL and 0° here when we got them at 11 a.m. Not 45° like you said or 60° like the other guy said the temp was. Either way 4 heat packs in 45° weather is too much.

If you used 4 heat packs all winter long, then there should be plenty of people coming on here stating that fact and the fact that their animals weren't cooked when they got them.

Ok Alfredo now your pissing me off.

First you blame me for something that we both know was YOUR FAULT.

Then your going to run your mouth like that about the test being flawed. Obviously it doesnt matter at this point what the test proves, you WILL NOT STAND BEHIND YOUR TERMS. YOUR COMPANY DOES NOT STAND BEHIND ITS TERMS.

Lets see Alfredo, I was sitting at your facility from what approx 2 untill 5:30 pm the day I was down there hand picking. During that time you had 3 crates from Madagasgar sitting outside getting unpacked. At the time I left you still have over 40 chameleons IN BAGS, IN CRATES, with the lids off. This was in FLORIDA on a 70 plus degree day. Hell the mantellas were sitting outside for atleast 3-4 hours.

So its save for your boxes to take hours to be opened, out in the sun in florida, but my box gets delayed a few hours on a 60 degree day and your going to blame me. YOU GUYS COOKED THE SNAKE PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

Obviously there is no need to do the test, even if the results came in to favor me your going to say Im a crybaby thats full of ____. Your obviously not going to cover the animals AS YOUR TERMS STATE YOU WOULD. The third snakes half dead, and the 4th that I drove back still hasnt eaten.

You know I have to wonder at this point (based on my experience with your POOR QUALITY OF ANIMALS) if the snakes werent allready dead before shipping. Why else would someone with any experience shipping snakes send a box with 4 heat packs to a destination with 60 degree temps. It doesnt add up.

Your a CROOK plain and simple Alfredo. Id much rather be a "crybaby" who is picky about animals then a THEIF AND A CROOK.