Robert Sloan of Dallas, TX

So you just allow people to post lies they cannot show evidence of? I can understand the ban thing, but why would you allow someone to post this and NOT post any evidence when I have?

Originally Posted by Alterna Ranch

This is the screenshot from 2 weeks ago and he thanked me for my caring etc.

Right before thanking you, he instructed you to just ship them on the following Monday, as you'd offered to do; he accepted responsibility for the decision. Why didn't you honor his wishes? I think you both look equally bad for offering/accepting 2-day shipping, so how about leaving out any drivel about truly caring for their well-being. You sure don't seem all that eager to actually get the man his snakes - at least, not without him sending more $$ than was initially agreed to.

Originally Posted by Alterna Ranch

You send a partial payment to ANYONE in reptiles and do not pay the difference - no one gives a refund.

Ignoring the fact that one would have to have fully embraced a scammer's mentality to make such a statement, he didn't send a partial payment. As per your screenshots, you offered to ship 2-day with the understanding that it would nullify any live arrival guarantee - he accepted. With that in mind, that essentially constitutes a contractual agreement - making $445 payment in full. If you now want to operate under the premise that you really give a rat's ass about their fate, that's fine; but your sudden qualms aren't the buyer's problem.

An amended contract is subject to approval by all involved parties. He's not obligated to honor stipulations that you made well after the sale. You broke the deal; you give a refund. If you refuse to issue a full refund, I think you're just taking yet another step that leads to justifying that "scammer" moniker that soooo many people seem to think is so fitting for you.

Originally Posted by Alterna Ranch

So you just allow people to post lies they cannot show evidence of? I can understand the ban thing, but why would you allow someone to post this and NOT post any evidence when I have?

Bob, please note that if you wish to discuss policies of this site at length, please take this conversation to the proper forum for such discussions -> http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...splay.php?f=44

But in a nutshell, we are not judges, private investigators, nor forensic specialists. Any evidence offered by anyone can be forged or contrived to obfuscate. We are certainly not going to analyze any such evidence and make judgements upon the suitability of said material in relation to the truth. Members are encouraged to post their side of a story, and any evidence provided is purely optional based on their desire to be BELIEVED. We do not endeavor to force people to be believable. That is completely up to them and outside of our scope of responsibility. Everyone who reads what someone else has posted is strongly encouraged to come to their own conclusions about the information provided, evidence or not. This site is merely a form of media being used for members to make their postings within for public viewing without filtering on the part of managment.

I am ONLY going into this HERE and NOW because you have been away from the site for so long, and apparently do not recall how this site operates.


Again, I encourage you to use the Site Assistance and Feedback Forum (http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...splay.php?f=44) if you wish to go into the way this site is run (and HAS been run from the beginning) in any depth. Such discussions can't help but run off topic and wind up being a distraction to the main topic of BOI threads. Any further discussion quite likely will have the moderators issuing infractions, which I hope you would rather avoid. So please use the path I have offered for any continuance of this discussion if my points are not clear enough.

Originally Posted by Alterna Ranch

So you just allow people to post lies they cannot show evidence of? I can understand the ban thing, but why would you allow someone to post this and NOT post any evidence when I have?

The "lies" are up to the reader to determine. Anyone can post anything they want, within reason, as long as it follows the rules.

There are many issues with Stahl's posts, main one being he is not the person who has done business with you. The buyer should be here, even if it is to say, yes I am having issues.

You as a seller, should NEVER agree to 2-3 day shipping, you hold the cards, not the buyer. If he doesn't want to pay for overnight shipping, refund his money immediately (you have his address to send a USPS M.O. Problem solved.

For future shipments, I would use an approved shipper through FedEx, there are currently 3 businesses that allow shipping under their name. It is cheaper by far & safer for the animals. The snakes you have, in a 7x7x7 box, should be no more than $55. I bet if you went to one of the websites and put in the dimensions, weight & destination, you would see that you could possibly ship with the $45 he has already given you. That is also your second option, if you don't wish to refund.

All that being said, if you continue to use UPS & offer 2 day shipping, not many will do business with you … that alone is enough for me to not buy from you.

Evan on the Facebook feedback forum you referred to Stephen as your partner. Were you guys buying these snakes for your business?

Also if your friend/partner has been in the business since the 80's and has tons of experience as you said, why would he not have known about Sloan's reputation? And why would he agree to anything other than FedEx overnight shipping for a snake?

Originally Posted by Alterna Ranch

and NOT post any evidence

I called Evan out on his continued unsupported allegations when Steve could have just as easily come here and spoken for himself, and magically, an attorney who had told Steve Garvin to be quiet was the result. I think no one is really believing Evan's unsupported allegations, especially when he started the foot stomping drama.

You need to take some responsibility for your own shipping actions. UPS policy is plain, really, you think that the excuse 'they didn't ask' relieves you of responsibility?

Originally Posted by Alterna Ranch

Also, if that is the regs at UPS, then it is on them because I only use styrofoam lined boxes clearly marked Live Harmless Reptiles and they never ask what it is.

If your mentality about shipping in that you clearly and knowingly do something against UPS policy because you haven't got caught is generalized into other areas of your life, that would seem to erode any feeling of trust someone might have in dealing with you, don't you think?

Playing devils advocate...... I for the life of me can't understand why the money was not refunded after dealing with such a 'difficult' customer.
Enlighten us Robbie.....

I know nothing about criminal law? I guess my job for almost 12 years as a district court officer don't count. I never said Steve's attorney was charging anyone with anything. He is delivering the paperwork to the post office and the post office is going to file criminal mail fraud charges. But this is just more distraction and misdirection from the issue, stop taking Bob, refund the money. Bob's history does matter. It is not in the past, it is his whole life, He has been a criminal his whole life and still is. Refund the money Bob.

Lucille you are ignorant. Steve is a gold and coin dealer who owns multiple stores and deals with large sums of money. He absolutely does have an attorney and his attorney is handling this. You hypocrite calling me a liar with no evidence of it while you attack me for the same thing. More misdirection, I know dozens of people who ship reptiles with UPS, I used to, with the companies blessing and had accounts set up just for that. You guys are just all experts on everything. When bob gets notified that he is being charged with yet another crime, as he has been so many times, he will know that the postal money order was a mistake and the only reason that he did it is because he thought it was the best way to steal. Sorry, mail fraud is what you have committed. Refund the money bob. why are you not just ending this?

What floors me is that you, Evan, have been around here a long time. How long has Steve been collecting / breeding? With the longevity you have here, and the knowledge you SHOULD have, you thought it smart for Steve, your partner, to STILL make a purchase from Sloan? There probably isn't an old-timer or long-time enthusiast or keeper here who doesn't know that name and history and would take a chance with a purchase. What the heck would you expect?

Steve, your partner, should have been the one here to tell the story from the beginning, not you. As Lucille pointed out, convenient that an attorney has now advised him not to talk.

And, uh ... I know it was a very long time ago, Evan, but did you not have a little run in with Ohio Department of Natural Resources relative to possessing and selling wild animals without the proper permits or record keeping?