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Old 07-13-2011, 03:02 PM   #1
Michaels.herp
Sexing/breeding blue tongue skinks.

My gf and I have three bts and would like to consider breeding them. We just don't know the sexes. Two are three years and one is 2 years old. If anyone has advice on sexing and breeding please pm or email me thanks!

Michaels.herp@gmail.com
 
Old 07-14-2011, 08:27 AM   #2
MDC_Ophiuchus
Check out: bluetonguedskinks.net

In a nutshell, BTS are virtually impossible to sex when adults. I don't even know if you can probe them. The general consensus I've heard is: if it has babies, its a female!

Males sometimes leave sperm plugs around their cage, and if you knwo what to look for (a small mucousy glob), you may be able to single out a male.

Beyond that, try putting a pair together and watch them closely. If they don't start fighting, you may have one of each on your hands. Continue to observe diligently.
 
Old 07-21-2011, 11:08 AM   #3
pch101
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDC_Ophiuchus View Post
Check out: bluetonguedskinks.net

In a nutshell, BTS are virtually impossible to sex when adults. I don't even know if you can probe them. The general consensus I've heard is: if it has babies, its a female!

Males sometimes leave sperm plugs around their cage, and if you knwo what to look for (a small mucousy glob), you may be able to single out a male. Beyond that, try putting a pair together and watch them closely. If they don't start fighting, you may have one of each on your hands. Continue to observe diligently.
Key words here are "may", meaning no promises, and "diligently" which can be interpreted in many different ways. In this case, "diligently" should be interpreted as: you are willing to watch them non stop 24 hours a day. Anything other than that can, and often eventually does, end up in disaster. I will provide some info from my writings below.

Sexing
Before breeding Blue-tongued Skinks, it is necessary to have a sexed pair of sexually mature Skinks. This task is easier said than done, as blue-tongues are generally not sexually dimorphic, and are quite difficult to sex for most hobbyists. There are many ideas on how to accurately sex blue-tongues, with most of them being only semi-accurate at best. Very often, it is necessary to employ more than one of the following methods to accurately determine the sex of a Blue-tongued Skink.

Eye Color
There is literature that suggests that some male Blue-tongued Skinks have red irises, especially during the breeding season, with the females having a brownish-yellow iris. While this has proven to be true for some male specimens of T. scincoides, I have seen just as many, if not more, proven males with normal brown irises. I have also seen this trait in Indonesian Blue-tongued Skinks (Tiliqua gigas), on a few occasions. Two of my male T. g. evanescens specimens have red eyes, but I also have a large proven female T. g gigas that also displays the trait. I have also seen this trait in one of my female T. nigrolutea specimens. Eye color can sometimes be used, in conjunction with other observations, to determine the sex of a blue-tongue. However, I do feel safe in saying that iris color alone is not a reliable method for determining the sex of a Blue-tongued Skink.

Hemipenile Swelling
Many males have hemipenile swelling at the base of the tail. A cross section of the base of the tail would appear slightly triangular in shape, while a female's tail would be more or less round. This hemipenile swelling is usually more obvious during the breeding season. However, this is still not an easy thing to notice, and it is not always consistent.

Body Structure
One common method that hobbyists have used for years is to compare Head and body sizes. Males generally have slightly larger broader heads in comparison to their more narrow bodies, while females have slighter more narrow heads and heavier bodies. While this method has been used to some degree of success with the different scincoides subspecies, it is totally unreliable with the Indonesian Blue-tongue (Tiliqua gigas). One gigas in my collection was a sure female. She was a small 12 year wild caught captive with a very narrow head and plump body. Much to my surprise, she turned out to be a he. I also have a huge 24 inch 10 year wild caught captive gigas with a huge head and jowls, and buldging red eyes. I was convinced that he was a male until “he” was bred by one another male right before my eyes proving it to be a female. It has become obvious to me that this method does not always accurately indicate the sex of a given skink (especially gigas), and it is better when used in conjunction with other methods.

Hemipenile Eversion
Some people are able to manually evert the hemipenes of a male Blue-tongued Skink. Injury to the skinks reproductive organs can occur when it is done improperly, and it is a task that is best left to experienced individuals. It is also not totally reliable in that failure to evert does not always mean that the skink in question is a female since some males are able to resist eversion of their hemipenes, although many males are much more willing to cooperate with this procedure during the breeding season. For these reasons, I choose to use other methods to determine the sex of my skinks. Many male skinks will evert their hemipenes on their own just before they defecate. Some skinks such as the Tanimbar Island Blue-tongue (Tiliqua scincoides chimaera), or the Indonesian Blue tongue (Tiliqua gigas) do not generally appreciate handling, and males will often evert their henipenes right before they defecate and/or urinate on you. If you are fortunate enough to witness this pleasant surprise, you will have determined the sex of your skink.

Breeding Behaviour
Aside from actual copulation, there are many subtle differences in social interactions worth mentioning. My skinks are kept separately, and introductions are done during the breeding season. After being placed in the presence of a male, almost all females will wriggle their tail in, what I believe to be an attempt to distract the male's attention, thus providing an opportunity for escape. As of yet, I have not seen any of my males display this behaviour. When males are confronted with other males, they will both freeze for a moment after which they both simultaneously explode with aggression directed at each other. It is critical to break these fights up immediately in order to prevent any injury to the skinks.

Seminal Plugs
The presence of, or lack of, seminal plugs has proven to be one of the most reliable indicators that I have used in determining the sex of my Blue-tongued Skinks. Most Hobbyists overlook this dead-give-away because they keep their skinks on dirt, bark, gravel, or aspen bedding. The seminal plugs simply get lost in the substrate, never to be discovered by the skink's owner. I have found that when I keep my skinks on artificial turf, at least during brumation and the breeding season, the males will "drop" seminal plugs on a daily basis. These plugs are small (about the size of a bb) clearish-white slimy little blobs with tails that give them a total length of about 1-inch. They resemble small tadpoles, and are usually found in pairs. They are quite obvious on the turf, but will dry up by the end of the day, turning a yellow-brown color and withering into thin brittle twigs. At this point they are very easy to mistake for a small piece of aspen bedding or a dried up piece of cut grass. Some people confuse seminal plugs with the urates that skinks produce along with their feces. Urates are the white chalky portion of a skinks waste matter. During brumation they are produced in the absence of fecal matter, due to the fact that the skink has not taken in any food, but was still given access to water. This can be misleading, and it is important to know exactly what you are observing. Remember that urates are chalky, and they will crumble up quite easily in your fingers, while seminal plugs come in pairs and look like very small albino tadpoles.

Probing
While probing has proven to be an effective method for sexing many snakes, it is totally inconclusive and inconsistent with Blue-tongued Skinks. It is also not recommended due to the risk of damage to the skink's reproductive organs. Many Blue-tongued Skinks are inadvertently sterilized during this unnecessary procedure. So please, do not attempt to probe your Blue-tongued Skinks, it offers nothing to gain, and a lot to loose.

Communal Housing
While I can't say that I personally recommend it, some people choose to house their Blue-tongued skinks in pairs or groups. Unfortunately, many people mistakenly feel that their skink will grow to be lonely or bored without the company of other skinks. The fact is that almost all reptile species are, for the most part, solitary animals. There are a few exceptions, but blue-tongues are not one of them.

Blue-tongued Skinks do best when kept alone, and in actuality, a skink would view another skink simply as competition for food, water, basking sights, and shelter. Most people see two skinks all curled up together in a shelter or basking area and assume that they are enjoying each others company. This is a very common misconception. The skinks are actually piled up together because that one spot happens to be the best spot for whatever they are looking for at that specific time, such as warmth, coolness, or shelter. It is important to realize that blue-tongues do not like, need, want, or require each other's company, and it can actually be extremely stressful for them to be confined together in a situation where they cannot get away from each other as they would be able to in the wild. This is especially true for males. In the animal kingdom the world is run by the rule "survival of the fittest," with breeding rights and the best territories going to the biggest, strongest, and the most aggressive males. These territories are often defended fiercely, and the presence of another male is usually perceived as an immediate threat, requiring the intruder to either flee at once or fight. Of course the current occupant also has the same option to flee if he feels that he is no match for the new challenger. Males of many reptile species will often run off females as well as other males with exception being taken during the breeding season. The same is often true with females running off other females and males. In captivity this opportunity to flee is not available, and it often results in unwanted combat by the animal that would be less likely to fight if given the chance to flee. I have seen a lot of skinks with serious injuries, including: broken or missing limbs, fractured jaws, and missing tails, all due to cage-mate specific aggression. If fights do not occur, it is common for the sub-dominant animal to go to a corner and assume a submissive posture, doing nothing to threaten the status of the dominant animal. This means staying right there, and not eating, drinking or basking. A blue-tongue in this situation will usually end up dying, of what is often referred to as psychological domination, if it is not removed and given its own environment. Blue-tongues just do not appreciate the "company”. They function on very basic survival instincts that they have been programmed with over millions of years, and fortunately for them, the human emotion of loneliness is not one of them.

Still there are many people who chose to communally house their blue-tongues, thinking that it is the only way that their skinks will breed for them. In actuality, the skinks usually either fight or become sexually complacent to each other's presence. In my opinion, it is just not worth it and it is, more often than not, counterproductive. For those people who are fortunate enough to live in the mild climates of southern California or Florida, the use of LARGE outdoor zoo style pit enclosures could be an exception to the rule, offering the skinks the ever important option to flee when confronted by a would be aggressor. There are reports of some of the more cold tolerant species that have been kept and bred in this fashion all year around. The more tropical species may need to be brought indoors for part of the year, or possibly given access to supplemental heat. Outdoor pits should allow the skinks access to sun and shade with numerous shelters and visual barriers. The skinks should also be able to dig down, with precautions being taken to prevent them from digging out. You will want to make sure that the pit is secure in that it is both escape proof, and impenetrable to other animals such as dogs, cats, racoons, and birds of prey.
 
Old 10-13-2011, 02:52 PM   #4
barriejourney@yahoo.com
Wink breeding blue tongued skinks

So when exaclty is the start and end of breeding season for the bts? What temp do you incubate the eggs and for how long?
 
Old 10-13-2011, 05:06 PM   #5
pch101
They actually have live young, and the breeding season is late winter/early spring. Please keep in mind that it is not as simple as just tossing them together during the breeding season. You need to be sure of the correct sexes, and that you have a proper pair. Then breeding introductions may be in order. You need to watch them every second, or else you will very likely end up with missing or broken feet, legs, toes and/or tails. If they do not breed or attempt to breed within 30 seconds then separate them and try again a day or two later. If they do breed, then separate then as soon as the male pulls out. Either way, they should not have more than 1 or 2 minutes together for each visit, and they should anywhere from 1 to 5 supervised visits a year to get the job done. See these sites (they have good info and forums on BTS):

http://www.bluetongueskinks.net/blue.htm

http://www.seikereptiles.com/
 

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