Dubbya a bush or Not a bush, that is the question

Trying not to sound too obviously annoyed by the subject at hand, I find it amazing when people refer to our President as "less than intelligent". Keep in mind that the same people saying this are the same people who never attended Harvard or Yale, like our President did. Who never scored 1200+ on their SAT's (1300 qualifies you for Mensa). Who have no idea what their own IQ's are let alone the president (129). Who never ran for a political position in their lives, let alone Governor of Texas or President of the United States. Yet somehow, because this man cannot with any flair read a teleprompter, you associate him with stupidity without looking at who he really is. Keep in mind that this "nim-wit" was a millionaire before he was out of his 20's due to his own hard work and not a gift from good ole' mom and dad.

I do agree with some of you that better decisions could have been made but then again hindsight is always 20/20. I am sure Clinton wished he had kept his pants zipped all of those time but then again, hindsight is always 20/20. Understand what I am getting at?

Did I vote for Bush? Absolutely. Was he the best man for the job? Given what the alternative is I give a resounding yes to that question. Did this man inherit the problems and shortcomings of all of the prior administrations, including Clinton and George H? Absolutely. Do I envy his position? No way.

I think more of you need to read up on what is actually going on in Iraq. I have numerous family members serving right now and the stories that they tell are not the stories the media informs us of. We went to war to fight terrorism. We DID NOT go into Afghanistan to simply find Osama. Osama is the poster child for terrorism. How you guys can say that our involvement in Iraq is wrong, with what took place yesterday in Jordan, is beyond comprehendable to me. We were attacked. We struck back and will continue to strike back until either the threat is removed or the liberals take office (keep in mind even they supported the war until we had our first casualty).

Some of you (not specifically addressed to this board but dissenters in general) need to learn the art of thinking with both your heart and your mind. Sure, I hate to hear that we have lost 2000+ of our sons/daughters in this war but it is still far less than the 3000+ that were lost on 911. It is still tens of thousands less than when we were in Vietnam. Instead of saying that you support the troops maybe some of you need to spend time talking with them. You will get a much different picture then what the media is presenting.

Griz, a very frustrated middle of the road conservative.

Originally Posted by dutchoven

Trying not to sound too obviously annoyed by the subject at hand, I find it amazing when people refer to our President as "less than intelligent". Keep in mind that the same people saying this are the same people who never attended Harvard or Yale, like our President did. Who never scored 1200+ on their SAT's (1300 qualifies you for Mensa). Who have no idea what their own IQ's are let alone the president (129). Who never ran for a political position in their lives, let alone Governor of Texas or President of the United States. Yet somehow, because this man cannot with any flair read a teleprompter, you associate him with stupidity without looking at who he really is. Keep in mind that this "nim-wit" was a millionaire before he was out of his 20's due to his own hard work and not a gift from good ole' mom and dad.

I do agree with some of you that better decisions could have been made but then again hindsight is always 20/20. I am sure Clinton wished he had kept his pants zipped all of those time but then again, hindsight is always 20/20. Understand what I am getting at?

Did I vote for Bush? Absolutely. Was he the best man for the job? Given what the alternative is I give a resounding yes to that question. Did this man inherit the problems and shortcomings of all of the prior administrations, including Clinton and George H? Absolutely. Do I envy his position? No way.

I think more of you need to read up on what is actually going on in Iraq. I have numerous family members serving right now and the stories that they tell are not the stories the media informs us of. We went to war to fight terrorism. We DID NOT go into Afghanistan to simply find Osama. Osama is the poster child for terrorism. How you guys can say that our involvement in Iraq is wrong, with what took place yesterday in Jordan, is beyond comprehendable to me. We were attacked. We struck back and will continue to strike back until either the threat is removed or the liberals take office (keep in mind even they supported the war until we had our first casualty).

Some of you (not specifically addressed to this board but dissenters in general) need to learn the art of thinking with both your heart and your mind. Sure, I hate to hear that we have lost 2000+ of our sons/daughters in this war but it is still far less than the 3000+ that were lost on 911. It is still tens of thousands less than when we were in Vietnam. Instead of saying that you support the troops maybe some of you need to spend time talking with them. You will get a much different picture then what the media is presenting.

Griz, a very frustrated middle of the road conservative.

Wow...
I have to agree with you saying Bush is not dumb....I think he is far from that
However i am not sure if he is good for this country as a Whole
I dont think we had any business going to Iraq
Just as we dont have any business going to N. Korea,Iran Any where in Africa And South America...

I am certainly not condoning going into North Korea etc. But, we have to be prepared and stop cowering under the covers whenever the possibility for danger exists. If North Korea attacks or becomes such an emminent threat that the safety of our country is in jeopardy then I say we do what needs to be done. Again, not advocating excessive force but I fully support our involvement in Iraq and we need to stay there until the job is done, however long that may be.

Griz

Did you know that we are going to let iran have nuclear grade uranium now
Just Saw it on the news

I would like to see some evidence of W's mental abilities, besides just your say so. BTW, I don't think MENSA recognizes the SAT's, as qualifying one for membership.

Comparing Clinton getting a BJ to what is going on in Iran and Afghanistan is insulting to ....... just about everyone. Especially the memories of the dead.

Everyone knows WHAT is going on in Iraq. The only question is WHY and What are we going to do. OK, that was two questions.

Bush lied about WMD.

He lied about Iraq trying to get uranium from Niger. The guy who told him there was no uranium deal was James Wilson. That wasn't what W wanted to hear, so he (W) said Iraq DID try to get uranium, knowing it was a lie. When Wilson went public with his story, the Bush camp "leaked" the fact that Wilson's wife was a CIA covert operative, putting her life and others in jeopardy.

Colin Powell himself admits that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

IMO, this is a corrupt administration, not seen since the likes of Nixon. They seem to consider the laws of the land too limiting.

PS No one is suggesting we "cower in fear".

OMG
Never talk politics especialy on this forum

With all due respect Ritchie, your answers are very typical of the average consumer who simply relies on the media to provide them with their food. With just the remotest amount of homework you would find that one's SAT was accepted for entry into Mensa. Here you go since you don't want to take my word for it -----> Mensa SAT link

Obviously, at the time George W achieved said SAT score, the above was in place. Heck, for that matter it was in place when I took them!

With regards to good ole Plame, what you just threw out as fact, has not even been established to be so by Fitzgerald yet you so quickly imply that it is fact. Again, I mean no disrespect but I have to refer you back to my original quote:

Originally Posted by dutchoven

I think more of you need to read up on what is actually going on in Iraq. I have numerous family members serving right now and the stories that they tell are not the stories the media informs us of. We went to war to fight terrorism. We DID NOT go into Afghanistan to simply find Osama. Osama is the poster child for terrorism. How you guys can say that our involvement in Iraq is wrong, with what took place yesterday in Jordan, is beyond comprehendable to me. We were attacked. We struck back and will continue to strike back until either the threat is removed or the liberals take office (keep in mind even they supported the war until we had our first casualty).

Lastly, no, you obviously did not understand my remarks about hindsight being 20/20. This was not a reference to blow jobs in the oral office. This was simply implying that EVERY SINGLE PRESIDENT, both past and present, wishes that they could change things. As we all know, Bill with Monica/whitewater, George H with Sadaam, Reagan with Iran, Carter with his miserable foreign policies/inflation and so on have done things that they regret or wish that they could change. I am sure George W wishes that he could change all of the US lives that have been lost. However, I do believe that these lives lost were not in vain.

Ponder this point just a moment. Why are recruiting goals for the military down? Could it be because the media has so blatantly spread misinformation regarding this war to bring down the sitting President? Heck No! You might say. The recruiting goals are way down because this is an unjust war. Right? Then tell me why rentention goals are through the roof for the military? Could it be because the one's that are serving, the very one's protecting the average uninformed Joe, the very one's that receive the thank you's from the Iraqi children know the truth?

Don't tell me this is an unjust war. The soldiers and most importantly, the people of Iraq tell a much different story.

Griz

Originally Posted by dutchoven

Don't tell me this is an unjust war. The soldiers and most importantly, the people of Iraq tell a much different story.

With all due respect, you forget the bases for our going to war were the following:

• Saddam had weapons of mass destruction
• Saddam was involved in 9/11

Now I only got 1460 on my SAT's (670/790 -- guess I could join Mensa ) but I believe that neither panned out. So please 'splain in words that this "spoon fed by the media" independent person might understand the "justness" or "justification" for this war. And please stick to the "conservative's" party line as spouted by Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld et al. The soldiers are fed propaganda, just as we are, and frankly they are there under orders from their duly elected commander-in-chief. And I don't give a rat's ass that the majority of Iraqis may be happy that we are there; that is not "justification" for war. If it were then we would be in North Korea, which (incidentally) developed bona fide weapons of mass destruction and means of delivering them to our friends and perhaps to us while we were "busy" ridding Saddam of his non-existent WMD's and "nation building" (something "W" pledged in 2000 never to do).

I have much in common with many conservatives. I own guns (carry concealed almost every day) and I believe in a balanced budget. I also believe in freedom from government's intrusion in my personal decisions. I supported the war because of what my President and his administration told me, not the media. I have come to believe that the intelligence was manipulated and distorted, and that perhaps we were told outright lies. That is why this independent thinker, who voted for Ronald Reagan in 1980 and Bill Clinton twice does not believe there was justification for this war. If our President and his people did not know the truth about WMD's and their non-existence, they should have. That was incompetence. How the war's aftermath was handled has been a disaster, though I do admit that is looking through the "retrospectoscope". Whatever legitimate government emerges in Iraq is likely to be Shiite dominated, and will take it's cues from Iran, a far more dangerous state.

Lastly Griz, and with all due respect, if you believe that what happened in Jordan yesterday is justification for this war you are dead wrong. Those bombings happened as a direct consequence of our occupation of Iraq. Terrorists operate freely there now, and did not prior to our invasion. We have created a poster child for terrorist recruiting with this ongoing occupation.

MENSA has not recognized the SAT's in over ten years. My statement was correct.

I get my news mainly from the McNeil/Lehrer Report, the BBC, and yes, the evening news. I am somewhat a news junkie, and I will be the first to agree that American media is often crap. So, I search many different sources, and try to make an informed opinion.

With all due respect to you, Bob, having family members in Iraq, (facing death and bravely serving the US), does not necessarily make you an authority on world politics.

It IS a fact that someone high in the Bush camp (Rove? Cheney?) leaked Plame's name. Fitzgerald's job was to determine WHO. And my money says he will eventually find out.

Lastly, as far as the war being just, well, who's to say. To call it a war seems a little old fashioned. Maybe invasion and armed occupation would be more accurate.