David Freeman Carolina Classic Dragons

Originally Posted by dragonluver83

No offense but I see a N.C. hate wagon.

How can that not be offensive? My opinion on the matter and where I happen to live are completely irrelevant. Besides, I'm a Virginian born and raised. I just happen to live in North Carolina now.

Originally Posted by dragonluver83

Telling the seller what he needs to do and how he needs to do it. An save face. Do it now. Strong words to a guy with David's 800 bucks. Be easy kiddo.

The seller came on here asking for advice. He got it. And to answer your question, 50/50 split should be without shipping costs, as you said. But again, that's my personal opinion as a person, not as part of a "hate wagon"

Originally Posted by dragonluver83

YOU and STEPH are regs on the b.o.i.'s so maybe it wasnt so much directed at you, but you two certainly didnt help. Lol.

Again with the NC stuff? As regulars shouldn't that mean that we are less likely to jump on a band wagon. Have we not proven ourselves as independent thinkers?




On a different note, who actually packaged and shipped the dragon? Anthony, did you use someone else's materials on your own, or did you just drop off the dragon at the shipper's place?

Don't get me wrong, the seller and buyer are the only two key parties here, but if all this comes down to bad shipping (pillow cases with holes, heat packs, etc), who was the actual shipper?

Tom, how did it go from an NC "bandwagon" to an NC "hate wagon" - ? Eesh! And like Rachel, while I reside in NC, I'm a born and raised New Yorker. Geo-spatial proximity to the subject of the inquiry means nothing. Rachel is 100% right, as "regulars", we have certainly proven ourselves to be independent thinkers. And, to echo her sentiment again, how could we NOT be offended by that?

Who are you referring to as "kiddo", may I ask? ...we don't allow children on our "hate wagon" >.<

...alas, I digress. That's off topic, but you brought it up. I wasn't going to let that one slide.

The nuts and bolts of this altercation are black and white. The accusing party brought all of this to a public forum that is NOTORIOUS for excellent sleuthing skills and scathing, blatant honesty. It appears he's not happy with the advice he's received. Perhaps instead the initial post should've read "tell me what I want to hear" - ?

I'm not 100% convinced that Dave should be responsible for the shipping, either, especially considering that up to this point, all evidence points to poor shipping as the main culprit in that poor dragon's demise. He's responsible for half the shipping cost at most. Go ahead and hunt through the bowels of the BOI and look for landmark cases dealing with this exact thing. They're all resolved in the same fashion. The dragon arrived dead. He deserves a refund. End of story.

... hindsight is indeed always 20/20.

Originally Posted by dragonluver83

So if you sold two cars to a buyer. You sold your mercedes for 6000 and your ford pinto for 500. and the pinto quit running and the customer wanted half of that 6500 hundred back, you would refund them 3250 for the pinto???



An the price is in the hands of the seller.

The difference being that if you sold 2 cars, one worth substantially more than the other, the price of each would be clearly defined ... which it was not in this case.

Originally Posted by dragonluver83

I hate to break up the N.C. ban wagon but telling this man to take option A or option B isnt going to get David any money back.

Just because the people posting happen to live in NC, doesn't mean we are a "band/hate" wagon.
I happen to have lived in GA most of my life. Living in NC does not sway my opinion on this matter.

The OP sold 2 dragons for $800 shipped, one arrived DOA. As the dragon, in my opinion died because of improper packaging, the buyer is entitled to the amount of the dragon plus half of the shipping. The DOA looked perfectly healthy and would have lived, IMO, had it been shipped in a large deli container or something similar.

Whether or not, the other one is genetically superior, is of no concern here ... there was no discussion of individual price for each dragon.

I don't think the seller is a bad guy, or wanted this to happen, but it did and it is up to him to make it right.


OFF TOPIC, sort of ... if I was buying the dragons, the DOA would have been the one I wanted, due to the strong coloration.

I don't think the dragons should have been left in the box with a heat pack inside the house upon arrival though. I never do that because it can cause problems. I think it would be a nice gesture though to refund some of the money.

Buyer of Dave's and had 0 issues When dealing with him

Not taking sides here but when Dave's dragon arrived to me I was working and I left him in the box for an hour or so then removed him and had 0 issues But was packaged differently

Well if you want to get down to it; what kind of heat pack was it? 40 hour? 60 hour? Why was it just flopping around loose in the box? Heat packs should be wrapped in a layer of newspaper and taped to one of the sides, or the top or bottom styro piece, and there should always be something in between the animal and the heat pack such as wadded up newspaper etc.

i truly hate getting involved in this topic but my question is being shipped over night this dragon is only in a box on average 12 hours what underlying issues does david have to worry about with the one that made it im sure things happen but your name is all you have in this hobby and being a package deal at 800 half is what i would like to get in return the comparison to cars sure the higher end car looks more appealing but how much damage has been repaired ive bought many dragons from david and never had any issues in fact his dragons ive had the best of luck out of grow at unreal rates and truly gave me everything I could ask for out of color as far as the doa if it was one of my dragons as for most people out their give at least a week health guarantee i dont understand were the issue of covering the cost of the dragon is a problem at least hes keeping the one that made it and not trying to get full refund 65 in shipping them both back is far different than the hole amount and hes only asking for half in which is all he received

Originally Posted by reptilebaby

I don't think the dragons should have been left in the box with a heat pack inside the house upon arrival though. I never do that because it can cause problems. I think it would be a nice gesture though to refund some of the money.

And sitting in my office with an air temp of 75 is different than sitting on a UPS truck how? I cannot even count the number of dragons I have shipped and received and never had a problem. AGAIN, a heat pack shouldnt have been used and if you were going to use one you communicate that to the buyer AND you package everything (dragon and the heat pak) properly. Again, no communication from the seller/shipper, I miss 3 1/2 days of work waiting for these dragons that never show up and now I am responsible for this dragon dying? Cmon.

Originally Posted by Kiwi

i truly hate getting involved in this topic but my question is being shipped over night this dragon is only in a box on average 12 hours what underlying issues does david have to worry about with the one that made it im sure things happen but your name is all you have in this hobby and being a package deal at 800 half is what i would like to get in return the comparison to cars sure the higher end car looks more appealing but how much damage has been repaired ive bought many dragons from david and never had any issues in fact his dragons ive had the best of luck out of grow at unreal rates and truly gave me everything I could ask for out of color as far as the doa if it was one of my dragons as for most people out their give at least a week health guarantee i dont understand were the issue of covering the cost of the dragon is a problem at least hes keeping the one that made it and not trying to get full refund 65 in shipping them both back is far different than the hole amount and hes only asking for half in which is all he received

Considering the latest these packages can be dropped off is between 4-6PM, depending on location, for overnight delivery and that package is not expected to arrive until between 10 - 10:30AM, they are in transit for longer than twelve hours.

Look, I don't want to throw anybody under the bus, that is not my ultimate goal here at all.

But, unfortunately, since this issue doesn't seem to be dying a natural death anytime in the forseeable future, I think the next thing that needs to be examined is the shipper, meaning, the individual who physically prepared the packaging materials, made the (poorly thought out) judgment call on the heat pack, put the dragons in the box and sent them on their merry way to NC. That appears to be the crux of the argument of late, as focus has (rightfully) shifted from what ought to be done in terms of a refund (it's a no brainer, I cannot say that enough) - - is Anthony standing by his shipper? The person needs to be identified, because ultimately, as I've said earlier, all evidence points to poor shipping practices being the likely culprit in the hypo gal's untimely death. It would still ultimately be the SELLER'S responsibility to communicate the shipping details to the buyer, but I still feel as though the shipper should be identified.

...ultimately, even if Anthony wasn't the one who shipped them, responsibility needs to be accepted for trusting someone else to do it, whether or not the live and safe arrival of all critters in question was successful.

Kelli's right - and I know others have brought it up - - more details about the shipping need to come out if this issue is going to continue to be looked at and argued.