BAD experience WITH **RK REPTILES**

<font size="4">I purchased 30 Veiled chams from RK REPTILES. I was told they were 3-4 weeks old. When I received them they looked OK, and were all alive. Within 24 hrs 3 were dead and 4 more wouldn't open there eyes. I went to 2 different reptile shops, and looked at the 4 week old Veileds the had, and in both stores they were twice as big. At first I thought it was just bad luck, but now I think Rob Knew exactly what he was doing. Today I received 20 Veileds from another breeder. These chams are almost 2 inches from nose to vent and are the same age as the other ones were supposed to be. In one week 7 out of 30 died. I'm supposed to be happy because he through in 2 extra Incas some died. The new breeder I go through gave me 72 hr guarantee. He didn't give me any extra, because the ones I paid for aren't going to die. I'm sure Rob hasn't burned everyone, This is just my experience with him. If he had any integrity at all he would try to work something out.</font>

Mike

Mike....a couple of things...first...I don't know you, and I've never done business with you (that I can recall? lol)...but, I DO know Rob Trenor!! I received 6 of his baby veils and 10 of his baby beardies on Tuesday morning....they are doing very well, and they are ALL still alive...there has GOT to be another reason for your bad luck with the one's you received??? &nbsp;I've bought quite a few baby veils from Rob over the years....not one has ever died on me!! NOT ONE! By any chance...are you feeding them anything BUT "Pinhead" Crickets?? Are you (maybe) giving them 1/4" crickets?? If If If this is the case...some of those kids can't handle that big a cricket and just won't eat??? Could that be possible??? I'm not saying, I'm just asking???

Secondly....there is no way on the face of this Earth that you are going to get a 4-week old Veiled Chameleon to get to a 2" stv without use of an airgun!!...period! At 4-weeks old, they should be a chubby 1"+ stv...and these ARE?? At 2"...they are probably 7-8 weeks old....

If Dana Pennebaker is reading this....she will know!! If I'm wrong...I will take my lumps...but, I doubt it....

Mike, I really think you're giving Rob a bad rap for something that he had no control over....you can count the number of Rob's bad deals on less than one hand! Heck...he's an ex-COP!! His whole life has been about doing the right thing....as you can tell by Rob's OWN thread about your deal....you don't seem to have too much support?? That's NOT because you are a bad guy...not at all!! It's just because IN THIS INSTANCE...you are mistaken about the "reason" for the death of 7 out of 30...I truly believe that! ....Neil

First off.. You are promoting more work for the webslave here on the BOI by opening this new post here. there already exists a post thread here on the BOI in relation to this matter. You should have posted this in the thread already going on the matter which you seem to have a problem with. In case you can not find it it is located HERE &nbsp;<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>

Sorry webslave but I am posting an answer here to this post &nbsp;<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>
Rob obviously had some questionability in relation to the deal you made with him and the outcome of the chams you received from him. That is why he started that thread. He has had many replies in relation to the thread he started and from what I have seen he has not only backed you up with what he represented in your deal with him to be, BUT has also had many people refelct that he has also.
You were given a guarantee of live receipt on the chams, you stated that the chams arrived and were alive and doing fine, then you have some fo them die off a couple days later and expect Rob to guarantee them outside of his FULLY REPRESENTED LIVE ARRIVAL GUARANTEE ?
I do not work with chams myself personally, BUt from what i understand of them they are a very easily stressed creature. You housed them in high numbers, as we have seen in relation to the emails Rob posted you had sent him also. Goiven that information I would think that you caused their demise by the housing conditions seeing as they were fine when they made their arrival to you as you have stated they had.
Just my .02 on the subject.. <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>

Let me add my quick little responce to this. I have know and done business with Rob for 2+ year now and have never had any problems with him or his animals!!! One other thing is I got 10 of these veileds for this group and all look good. I have been breeding veileds for 6 years in good numbers and I know what should be 4 weeks old.
&nbsp; &nbsp;As most should know just because the animals are not huge does not meen they are not 4 weeks old nor sick. The other issue you have to think about is the differance in husbandry from you to Rob. Just the smallest change in environment could cause great problems in the chams. I would go to bat for Rob over anyone in this industry any day any time hands down &nbsp;<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> !!!!!!!!!!!!!
&nbsp; Rob is also one of the easiest people to talk to about things like this. You got animals that showed up 100% live arrival and three passed away a week or days later? THat is the only warranty given by most dealer is live arrival. Just my opinion, and yes I have spoke with Rob about your transaction with him last week.

Tropical Creations Herp

Brad and Wendy Cooper

well, since Neil brought me into this...I have an idea...

how about Rob send me a couple of his veileds and I'll be the judge, lol!!!
And Rob, while you're at it, I heard some terrible things about your panthers too--better send some free ones my way so I can judge them also.

ok ok, for the record, I've never done any business with Rob, but I know quite a few people that have, and I've only heard good things.

hope you guys can figure a way to work this out.

Dana

I think selling and shipping a Veiled Chameleon under 2" (or 8 weeks) is not recommended. &nbsp;Whether it be internet sale or Pet Shop. &nbsp;Its just not fair to the animals.
Its better to raise them up abit and ask a little more. &nbsp;Responsibilty goes to both parties.
Rob should not sell veileds that are 4weeks old unless it is a local pick up and the customer is more experienced.
The other gentleman, tried to save $$ buying young animals for a good price and most likely didnt know how to properly care for them. &nbsp;Both the desire to make $$ and save $$
has ended up costing some unfortunate animals their lives.


Devon Smith

Devon,

When ordering 3 or 4 week old veileds in volume I think it would assumed that you had more than just basic knowledge of chameleon care. I also recieved 10 of the same batch. Shipped to the same county that Mike lives in. Except that mine were a week earlier. I lost one. As I stated in the other thread I think housing all of them together was not a good environment especially after shipping them.

BTW, I don't think Dana would be a good judge of Panthers. You should send those to me <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

Thanks everyone for the post except Mike. And as far as Devon's post, I have been breeding and selling veileds at 2-4 weeks old for years and this is the only time I have had anyone have problems. &nbsp;I can't say exactly why they are or were dying but I can say they were all 100% healthy and doing great when I shipped them, & when he received them (according to him in his e-mail). &nbsp;If you want to compare my veileds to some other breeders go right ahead it does not matter to me. &nbsp;One thing I can pretty much guarantee the other breeder did not sell you (Mike) those veileds at the prices or near the prices I did. &nbsp;I sold them to you below current wholesale prices. (current wholesale prices at $20ea no matter how many you purchase, and thats from many breeders and wholesalers). &nbsp;As far as their size, like I told you in the begining on the phone some were larger and some were smaller( depeinding on which were eating more crickets) Also another thing I told you I was feeding them the next size down from 1/4" and that you should do the same. &nbsp;That right there could be the whole reason for any perishing. &nbsp;Another thing you stated that within 24 hours 3 had died, well according to the dates on your e-mails it was 2 days before you wrote telling me that any had died. &nbsp;Thats a little more than 24hours. &nbsp;If the ther breeder wants to guarantee his for 72 hours great for him. &nbsp;I can't do that as anyone who has bred, housed or dealt with chameleons know if your not doing the proper housing any cham can die in less than 72 hours. &nbsp;I stood behind my guarantee which was stated on the ad the Chameleons were posted on, posted on my web site, and even quoted to you on the phone and clarified when you asked for a longer guarantee. &nbsp;I think that it is funny how you are the only one who has a problem with those chameleons. &nbsp;Daniel got some from the same group and he recieved his a week earlier (which would make them younger than when you got yours) and he is not having problems. &nbsp;I would like to say one thing, I have always conducted my business in a fashion like I would want to purchase. &nbsp;I guarantee and sell healthy animas otherwise they do not get sold. &nbsp;If i had thought any of the veields were ill or weak I WOULD NOT HAVE SENT THEM. &nbsp;How dare you come on here and state </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think Rob Knew exactly what he was doing. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> I knoew exaclt what I was doing when I shipped out healthy animals PERIOD!. I think it is reduculous that because you did not get your way of getting more chameleons for free you decide to start another thread. &nbsp;There was one thread regarding this matter on the BOI already. &nbsp;I wish you the best with your new Veiled Supplier and hope they are everything you want in the future as you have burned a bridge with me and will never receive animals from me. &nbsp;Also you stated they were ill, well I noticed your ad on kingsnake posting them for sale. &nbsp;So they must be healthy enough to sel in your eyes.

Another note,

I have purchased baby veileds at 1 day old and had them shipped to me all the way across the us and sucessfully been able to raise them to adult hood with out any problems. In case anyone were curious.

Mike, is this part of your add?
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">VEILED CHAMELEONS
THESE GUYS ARE 1 MONTH OLD.EATING 1/4 INCH CRICKETS AND THEY ARE GROWING FAST.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
If so, do you disagree that 1/4 inch crickets are too large for them? I don't know anything about chams, I'm just asking.

Bobby Douglass