Reptster.com experience with show sponsorship not good

Originally Posted by shrap

First I want to say that there is absolutely no excuse for a complete lack of communication from David. NONE!

Now, before everyone goes off with a million assumptions (TOO LATE), David said he is going to post some information that is going to fill in some gaps that may have been left out. It is only right to see what else is presented before jumping to anymore conclusions.

David, say what you want about the BOI. There are plenty of people that jump in on these threads that are dumber than a box of rocks and most of us end up less intelligent just for having read what they posted. To be perfectly honest most of us completely ignore what those people have to say.

But there are also a lot of your peers, potential customers and business partners out here who are only going to make a judgment based on how the two parties involved handle the situation. Both parties can come out of these threads looking like roses, but if someone is not on the up and up they are going to get snagged by the thorns. And your peers and potential customers are going to see it for what it truly is.

Sammy, this post is right on the money.

Lets everyone hold off for a bit. Let David Post.

Originally Posted by DavidYoung

I strongly disagree on an open forum for the use of establishing a reputation.

Forums don't establish a person's reputation. A person's actions do. A forum is just one way of documenting a person's actions.

look...mr. young received an email on 9/3/08 at 12:18pm. in this email, it was stated by kelly that there was a verbal agreement of 750.
look...mr. young on wednesday 9/3/08 at 12:20pm (2 minutes later) replied (in short) "I apologize, will get the check out".

i just dont get it. i dont understand it and i dont see it. you say the price jumped around from 250 to 750 and back. the email quoted above showed that you knew the agreement was for 750, as you agreed to send a check out for that amount. you even replied with an apology for not getting the check out and also in the same reply stated you would get the check out. the final 2 emails that you spoke of that you never received, the first one was sept 15th, 11 days after you replied that you would send the check. i dont get it, and i dont understand. the united states post office does not even take 11 days to deliver mail at christmas time. so whether you received the last 2 emails or not is irrelevant. the relevant fact is:
1. you acknowldeged in email that you owed the money by saying you would send out a check, and that you agreed the price was $750 by not denying or questioning the price in that email.

right now that is all i have to say until david decides to take the time later to post up the missing emails he claims he has, as well as conversations he claims happened. i know what my wife told me on a day-to-day basis on what was happening, so i want to see what he has to say happened to see what is different.

matthew kordek

I did not take over a show I started mine without begging for money from others.

Please note that I am typing this response over a period of time, and that responses to this thread are coming in as I type. I will do my best to respond to David's replies as I see them coming in. Hopefully it will answer the questions anyone else has as well. So forgive me if this reply is a bit long.

Ok, I will HIGHLIGHT some of the phone conversations to the best of my knowledge and input them into the timeline of the emails. David can confirm or dispute them or add to them if I have left anything out in his opinion. If I am missing emails, I have asked David directly in my email on 9/15 to send them to me, as I agreed that I may not have some. I never received those emails, and hope to see them so we can resolve anything.

The first conversation we had was on 7/2/08 was regarding the issue I was having with being able to sign into the forums - we had exchanged several emails regarding this issue with no resolution to that issue (no, I do not have those emails, as I never believed they would be important). David personally emailed me after I emailed his customer service with what I believe was a more direct contact to him, which it was. I called, and we got to talking about computer stuff and got the account fixed. We were also talking about the show, my goals, and why I was doing this. I mentioned that I was looking for another sponsor for the show. He asked about what that meant, and I told him that honestly our ideas were not completely set in stone, but we had an idea of "levels" of sponsorship, one that started at $250 with very little advertising involved. I mentioned the $750 level, and he said he thought it was great, and that we would work something out for table setups since he could not personally attend due to his commitment at the Chicago show. We talked about him shipping supplies to us about a week before the show, and that the details of that would be worked out closer to things happening. I also asked him what he normally does to sponsor a show, as he mentioned that he sponsors quite a few. He said it varies with the show, and he works that out "depending on what they want", so it was worth talking about. By the time our conversation was over, I was very excited, and thought that it was a priority for David, as he seemed to be on board with our goals. I was also under the impression that our agreement was $750, as David kept saying how he thought the price was fair since we would be doing all of the work at the show itself to help advertise his business. We also spoke about the idea of coming up with some advertising gimmicks to help people sign up for his services, like maybe a table discount to vendors or something. Again, we agreed to talk about this "soon" when he had time to think of things. I also mentioned wanting his logo for the advertising so that I could give his site more exposure than just a text link. I told him I would start advertising his sponsorship immediately, and did so with text links, figuring the logo would be coming soon. Although I am not sure this can be verified by the webpage updates, but it is on several forums about how excited we were that David was sponsoring, all of which are timestamped. There is even a post on my advertisement for the show on Fauna that will show this dated 7/8/08.

We had several short conversations that I mentioned where he said he was having many FedEx accounting issues, and that he really could not talk about the show stuff right then. He told me several times he would send over the logo, and we could get the payment details worked out when he had the chance to talk. He promised several times to call back, but never did. This was when I sent the email on July 14th. From what I remember, I did not have any contact with him at all via phone or email until July 22nd, when I again emailed asking for the logo. I was getting ready to print up fliers to take with me to Hamburg, and wanted to make sure to have him advertised. Wait, I am mistaken, I do remember a conversation about needing the logo sometime in between those dates, where I mentioned my deadline for the printing being on a certain date. THAT is why I sent the email on July 22nd, because I did not hear from him.

I honestly do not remember any conversations with him until the email I received on July 28th with the logo. I may be wrong, but I know that if there were conversations, they were short and sweet and I was told I would receive a phone call back to sort out details.

From that date, I left several phone messages for David, and may have spoken to him quickly (again, other things were taking too much time and he could not talk long), trying to get in touch about the sponsorship stuff. one reason he mentioned being so busy was that UPS was jumping on board with the shipping deal, and they were frantically working on the programming for this as well as the FedEx issues. I did not receive an email or phone call back, and hence the email on Aug 12th. I did mention issues with my email, but that was that some of my emails were deleted from Outlook. They were found on the email server after some looking, and I was able to find his personal number again, which I left several messages on.

There was a conversation that was fairly short and sweet sometime after that email regarding banner ads on the website that I initiated (as all of the phone calls were). David agreed that he would put up banners on the front page of Reptster.com for the show free of charge since he was sponsoring the show. This was several days before the email on the 22nd, and I was having issues with my banner program, hence the delay in getting them to him. He had mentioned to me in our conversation that he was extremely busy getting ready for Daytona, as him and Reptiles Magazine were co-sponsoring the big vendor party, and even asked if we were going to Daytona so he could make arrangements for us to attend the party. I told him we were not fortunate enough to make it this year, but maybe we could talk about doing something similar for our upcoming shows, possibly the one year anniversary show. Another part of that conversation was that he wanted to send me $200 a week (starting that week) until the payment was made, as it "always feels better to send out several small payments than 1 big one, at least I always feel better doing that" with a laugh and chuckle from David. I agreed to this during this conversation, as I felt at least it was something from him. At no point in time until this point (or ever) did David mention that he felt the amount of the sponsorship was too much, and he did agree that it would take 3 weeks of $200 payments and one payment of $150 to settle up. I BELIEVE this was the same conversation that he mentioned his girlfriend moving into his apartment that day, and that as soon as he got back to the office that evening that the check for the first $200 would go out that day (well, Saturday's mail technically), but I may be wrong about the specific date. David should be able to verify the actual date of that conversation if he knows the exact date his girlfriend moved in. If I have my math correct, that is $750. So again, an agreement on the price of the sponsorship by phone sometime between Aug 12th and Aug 22nd, closer to the 22nd was $750.

I mentioned in my email on August 29th a phone conversation we had had almost 2 weeks before, meaning the one we had about the banner ads. This again spelled out the agreement of the $200/week payment arrangements, and that I still had not received a check. From that point, I left several messages on both the customer service line posted on the website, as well as his personal number with no response whatsoever.

On 9/3 was when I sent the email to him (6 days later) about him not contacting me by email or returning phone calls, spelling out the exact agreement we had come to over the several months. Both his personal number and the customer service line were giving mesasges that mailboxes were full and could not take anymore messages, hence the reason for the email. The email SPECIFICALLY mentioned the $750 agreement, and if David had an issue with the price, he did not mention it in his reply that same day, rather saying to email him my address and he would send out a check. I do realize that I am missing that email in the string, but it was simply my address, a thank you and I do not remember anything else. It was as short and sweet as his email to me. David can verify or deny this by posting this missing email. If David had an issue with the price or the agreements we had made, he should have said something, but rather just agreed to send a check. To me, this was once again a verification that he knew the deal was for $750.

At this time, I was able to leave some messages later on both the customer service line and his personal line. I received no contact, by email or phone. Hence the email on 9/15 as my last resort contact. Again, the agreement was spelled out specifically as I understood it. It was the next day that I came to the BOI.

I know somewhere in this timeline of this entire situation I had a quick conversation with David on a Sunday where he mentioned being at a birthday party with his daughter, and I quickly said to call me back as I did not want to intrude on his family time (I have 5 kids, so I know how important that is). I also had a conversation with him where he said he would call me back in about an hour because he had just picked up his daughter from school and was driving. Those conversations were at some point, but I do not remember exactly where in this ordeal they occurred, but that was all that was said, and no calls were returned.

Other than these phone conversations and the one missing email, I am very confused as to what David is referring to in his response of missing calls and emails. Yes, I DID concentrate on the emails, but the emails basically spelled out any conversations where anything relevant happened, so I did not realize that this was an issue. As far as other emails, the only one I KNOW I am missing is the one I mentioned, and would almost like to see originals of these missing emails.

David, I am waiting to see some sort of proof of the "price changing multiple times". How can you pay something when the price keeps moving? I don't know, send me an email that says something like "what exact price did we agree on" if you were confused, and then agree or disagree to that price? Or pick up the phone and return a phone call and ask? You did neither. If there was confusion, you never took the time to ask and get it straightened out, nor did you even mention in any of the calls or emails to tell me you were not sure.

It seems the ONLY reason you are replying is because I had to bring this situation to public view. You have had so many chances to respond to me privately, like everyone has said, with a short email. You were able to send one saying you were sending out a check on 9/3, and that is the last I heard from you. If you had an issue with all of this, you should have been honest with me and told me - I am a very easy-going person and am willing to do whatever it takes to make people happy. I was HOPING for a good relationship with you, as you know I was really excited to help you promote your business because I believed in what you were doing to help the reptile community.

I see a response now that says you never received the last 2 emails. If so, then why did you not respond to my emails BEFORE this was put up here and BEFORE those emails were sent? I can verify any emails sent by simply forwarding them to a 3rd party who is willing to see that these emails were not made up, and were sent to your email address. If that is something you want done, let me know and I am sure one of these nice people would be willing to be that 3rd party. Also, I wholeheartedly stick to my statement that the emails I have posted, and the one missing one where I sent my address, ARE the only emails I am aware of that were exchanged.

To respond to Kevin, I do have it marked where all of my emails sent request a return receipt, but unless the person decides to send it to me, there is no way for me to tell if they actually read it. All I can do is forward the original emails to someone that shows that the emails were sent to his email address from mine on a specific date and time, which I am perfectly willing to do (as well as for any other emails I have).

Someone mentioned that everyone can get called out on the BOI, and I have seen it done many times where the OP ends up being found out the bad guy here. I am really trying to BUILD my business reputation, and have to say I would have to be INSANE to post this and have anything to hide after seeing what you guys can do.

YES, I learned my lesson about this type of transaction in the future, that is for sure. But, again, I was going by the word of a man who was supposedly versed in this situation with other shows, as well as someone who was building a great reputation for the things he was doing for the community in general. Was I naive? Apparently so. I guess I should have learned from reading enough on the BOI.

David, you have time for these quick short responses, why not just take the time you say it will take to post the long response and get it over with.

Hopefully this clears up some on my side.

Kelly Kordek

kelly, since you made assumptions about my business maybe you did change the price on David.And by the way I am left handed so I always come out of left field.

ok, well in my "opinion" since that's what this is. If there was to be a disagreement, and needed to be changed, then David, could have called Kelly. If he emailed her, and this and that, and the email was messing up, then he could have called her. It's just respectable to tell a person what is going on, and what is going to happen, not turn to around and change your mind. I'm not taking sides, I'm looking at this third party. I myself, have recently thought about joining Repster, but that doesn't mean just because of this or that I won't join or be accused of 3rd grader games. I would rather my money go to a better person and cause, and if that's what he is, then we shall see. I'm glad he decided to respond.

-Sonnie

Originally Posted by DavidYoung

Ok. I will spend two more minutes on this before tonight.

The price was changing, multiple times.

250 then 750 then 250 then 750.

How can you pay something when the price keeps moving?

I will not argue here. I will post one more time when I have the time, maybe this evening, with the rest of the emails and conversations. And thats it.

Thanks,
David

Doesn't matter to me what emails you have.

On 9/3 you responded to her email request for payment. You apologized for the delays and promised you were sending payment.

If you felt $750 was too much, why didn't you send her a check for $250? The amount could have been disputed for the services rendered, but now you just look like a total deadbeat. If its true and the prices were changing, you could have sent what you thought was fair and worked it out from there.

You sent nothing because you never had any intention of sending anything.

Thats my opinion.

Originally Posted by DavidYoung

Ok. I will spend two more minutes on this before tonight.

The price was changing, multiple times.

250 then 750 then 250 then 750.

How can you pay something when the price keeps moving?


Thanks,
David

I'll tell you how you pay something when the price keeps moving, you contact the other party and figure it out and not ignore them! lol. The OP made many attempts to contact you. That would have been a great time for you to say... How much did we agree on? Never mind; that is too much I thought it was $250.00 not $750.00. Are you telling me when you make a deal you don't confirm how much you agree to pay? I have some land in Florida I would like to sell you. (wink, wink)

So that means you shouldn't pay anything?

Originally Posted by DavidYoung

And the last two email from her were never received

Ahhhhh yes. Maybe the dog deleted them while you were dealing with your fedex accounting nightmares.