AL Cortiz, BAD GUY

I agree Kara that Justyn should let it go. Whatever damage that Justyn could do to Al's reputation has been done so at this point it is just

As devil's advocate though. Al has disputed little of what Justyn has said and refuses to answer Wes' questions. So I don't think he's come out of this unscathed. It is a moot point, because I wouldn't by venomous, but given the choice between two vendors with the same animals, I would probably choose the other guy over Al.

Originally Posted by Wilomn

I still want to see the permit al says he had.

I think he's lying.

I think he's mad a justyn and making things rough for him as payback.

I don't care whether he and justyn had a falling out.

I do care that al did business with justyn a month ago and was pleased with that business because he got what he wanted but when he got screwed by justyn's exporter THEN all of a sudden he feels the need to put justyn in thumbscrews.

al, you're stinking pretty bad here.

You gonna post those import permits or pull a mr. clark and slink away?

Wes... re-read those emails that were posted.. Al already said that Joe's the one with the permits and is the one that got the deal started between them and the importer. I've known that Al and Joe have been working together on getting things brought in for a while now...
hell I've known joe for a little over 3 years, and I know he's got the permits, he's even gone to school for FWC to become an fwc officer..I think he knows well and good what the rules are.

Justyn said that he would offer to help but backdown when he saw what Al told him what was happening, and what was to transpire

Al told him what course of actions he took and what effect it will have on all the parties involved, because justyn mentioned some kind of partnership between himself and the importer, and the laywer simply said that justyn might end up being afflicted as well.

Now, Justyn's running around crying that Al's twisted everything and pinned stuff on him. If anything it's Justyn that's twisting stuff and making look like HE's the victim.

Justyn just needs to stop trying to persuade those who already know the history he's dealt here or any other website that he's really a good guy.

Originally Posted by nora

Wes... re-read those emails that were posted.. Al already said that Joe's the one with the permits and is the one that got the deal started between them and the importer. I've known that Al and Joe have been working together on getting things brought in for a while now...
hell I've known joe for a little over 3 years, and I know he's got the permits, he's even gone to school for FWC to become an fwc officer..I think he knows well and good what the rules are.

Justyn said that he would offer to help but backdown when he saw what Al told him what was happening, and what was to transpire

Al told him what course of actions he took and what effect it will have on all the parties involved, because justyn mentioned some kind of partnership between himself and the importer, and the laywer simply said that justyn might end up being afflicted as well.

Now, Justyn's running around crying that Al's twisted everything and pinned stuff on him. If anything it's Justyn that's twisting stuff and making look like HE's the victim.

Justyn just needs to stop trying to persuade those who already know the history he's dealt here or any other website that he's really a good guy.

Nora, unless you've seen the permits, you have no clue whether or not they actually exist.

Until I see them I say al's a lying sack of crap.

Post the permits you have said YOU and then YOUR partner HAVE al.

Originally Posted by Wilomn

Nora, unless you've seen the permits, you have no clue whether or not they actually exist.

Until I see them I say al's a lying sack of crap.

Post the permits you have said YOU and then YOUR partner HAVE al.

Al, I know joe doesnt want to get involved, but at least get him to send you a copy of the permits so you can post them.

Originally Posted by nora

.
hell I've known joe for a little over 3 years, and I know he's got the permits, he's even gone to school for FWC to become an fwc officer..I think he knows well and good what the rules are.

oops.. correction: joe's only gone or still is goin to school for general law enforcement stuff... its one of the2.

but all and all he knows the rules and regulations that he needs to follow per FWC guidelines.

Correction: Joe is involved with local law inforcement and not Fish & Wildlife.

What I think happened is my money went towards shipping the items this guy owed Justyn. I am not saying that's a fact since I have no way of proving it at present. I got nothing from over there. I knew the shipment that went to him contained animals that did not match my invoiced list, so USF&WS opened it they let it go through to Justyn. Had it matched the list of animals I provided USF&WS would have confiscated the entire shipment till it was sorted out.

At that point I asked Justyn what he knew about it and gave me "Attitude" about going behind his back to his exporter, which is not at all true. Joe had contact with this guy long before I even knew he exsisted. Plus the exporter said he had NO US importer, so we tried to order some snakes. Besides, any business looks for as many buyers for his good as they can find.

This is when he offered to help and I thanked him for any help he could give me but I said he was NOT on the hook for the problem. (Most of that is in the emails he posted) I just tried to explain to him that it was in his best interest to convince Mr. Aime to send my $$ back because if I had to file a Federal Complaint with USF&WS throught the courts they would confiscate anything Aime sent, effective shutting off his source. I was not threatening HIM but my actions would effect his business as you can see.

Well Justyn flipped out and that's when all this started and he takes potshots at me with threads like this one, throwing anything he can to make me look bad. As classidied ad manager for the SHHS website, it's my job to police the site for "scams" and solve disputes. I deleted his ad's because he was a known scammer, like I said and was supported by Karl Betz and Chris Harper, webmasters. It had nothing to do with the Aime problem, I was just doing my job at SHHS. Was I to look the other way because I had done business with him, NO. The users of that site relyed on me to do that job, I could not be negligent and allow him to post and perhaps rip somebody else off. In hind site I should have just alerted Karl to the situation and let him deal with Justyn.

This is all I will say about this whole thread. I have no access to any of the permits etc. that are being requested since they are in Joe's possession. I posted the email at the point I came in contact with Aime for the first time.

It's find it very interesting that people who don't know me at ALL and have no contact with people I interact with can just simply slander me by siding with Mr. Miller, someone who has an established track record of being a thief and pathological liar. It's one thing to say that Al acted unethical in your opinion, as some have suggested but to be called a "scumbag" by people on this site is just unbelievable. Those people will continue to slander just because they can simply because they're sitting behind a PC somewhere else in the world and don't suffer any consequences for their actions.

As some close friends suggested, if you post to that thread, you will just pour fuel to the fire, so be it. In the end this thread will not effect anything I do in the herp world. Why? I don't scam people by selling animals I don't have in my posession and cannot ship in a timely manner.

Al

Well you were doing alright up till you wrote this QUOTE"

It's find it very interesting that people who don't know me at ALL and have no contact with people I interact with can just simply slander me by siding with Mr. Miller, someone who has an established track record of being a thief and pathological liar. It's one thing to say that Al acted unethical in your opinion, as some have suggested but to be called a "scumbag" by people on this site is just unbelievable. Those people will continue to slander just because they can simply because they're sitting behind a PC somewhere else in the world and don't suffer any consequences for their actions.

As some close friends suggested, if you post to that thread, you will just pour fuel to the fire, so be it. In the end this thread will not effect anything I do in the herp world. Why? I don't scam people by selling animals I don't have in my posession and cannot ship in a timely manner. /QUOTE
One thing is using the word Slander which refers to the spoken word not the written word, seems your not the first to confuse the two here. Yeah we're sitting behind computer screens just like you are, hey if we went to see you or called you up on the phone how would anyone know what was asked and said.. Yeah Justyn is taking Pot Shots and has been taken to task for posting this thread ETC . One thing many fail to realise when their name gets dragged into one of these threads is that how other respond to them depends on how they themselves respond. Give the facts, try not to get personal with anyone else in the thread no matter what they say about you. Yeah that's hard but you have to do the best you can..

Another thing is the back door shots at the BOI, never a good idea. The BOI may not be perfect but it's the best tool we have and if someone is afraid to post here they really need to think about why. Fuel on the fire well that may or may not be right but I tell ya responding like you have sure doesn't help. Hey I think most of us agree that Jystyn is a low life, though we don't know you from Adam most of us are willing to give you the benefit of the doubt here but post like your last one don't help you much.

By the way saying what happens here (as if you didn't care) wont affect your business is a bunch of crap and you know it ! and that statement is one that is often heard from scammers that get outed here.

Wes has asked you for some paperwork now it might be an idea to ask your buddy to get it for you. You can blank out what doesn't need to be posted publicly. I'll tell you this Wes is going to keep asking and your last post may get others to join the bandwagon.. Randy

The only way it would be unethical is if Al signed a "Noncompete Agreement" and a "Confidentiality Agreement". I believe the damaged party would have a legal remedy in that case. Have not heard of anything like that in the herp trade, so far.
jsc

So al, you've got this paperwork in YOUR possession, but in reality, it's in Joe's.

Seems to me that's a lie.

al, YOU saw no problem dealing with justyn, leaving his ads on a site you admin on AS LONG AS YOU WERE BENEFITING by the relationship BUT, when you needed to take justyn to task because "his" supplier screwed YOU, all of a sudden he's a known scammer and should not be using the site you admin on.

Seems a double standard to me.

So al, you lie and have at LEAST a double standard that you have used to further your business and take away justyn's.

My, how ETHICAL you are, a true pillar of the reptile community. Actaully, more like the stump the outhouse of the reptile community is leaned up against.

YOU said YOU had the permit in hand. I say the permit never existed.

Prove me wrong. I'll be magnanimous about it, I'll even appologize about it. If you don't maybe I'll start another thread about your lying and lack of ethics and double standards. Maybe I'll head over to TRR, where I'm in good standing and ask what they, the ones who told you not to ad fuel to the fire, think of your actions, not you as a person.

You see, while they are your friends, they are also some stand up folks who, when pressed for honest answers, will say that they do NOT approve of the way you've acted, even though they may understand why you acted like such a scumbag. The distinction is signifigant and it WILL affect your business.

Your turn there al, whatcha got?

al, YOU saw no problem dealing with justyn, leaving his ads on a site you admin on AS LONG AS YOU WERE BENEFITING by the relationship BUT, when you needed to take justyn to task because "his" supplier screwed YOU, all of a sudden he's a known scammer and should not be using the site you admin on.

I agree Wes, the timing is questionable.