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Old 10-18-2014, 01:48 AM   #1
neilg
Sexually Dimorphic morphs?

are there any so far known reptile morphs/mutations that are visually dimorphic between the sexes?

granted, sex in (most?) reptiles is determined developmentally (ie, incubation temp) rather than by sex chromosomes.

are there any cases where for example, incubating at a temp 'for' males, and getting more males for example, would affect the probability of and/or intensity of expression of some dominant, co-dominant or perhaps even normally recessive morph?
 
Old 10-20-2014, 06:07 PM   #2
Robert Walker
Neil, I have wondered this same question before in the past. I also came to the conclusion that if someone knew the answer/formula to this that it would be extremely guarded information.

If I knew the answer to this, I would not share it either.
Perhaps I know the answer
 
Old 10-21-2014, 01:00 PM   #3
neilg
aww.. i would share all intel/experience that is beneficial to domesticating/selectivelybreeding these wild animals we choose to confine and/or proliferate in captivity in bigger picture interest for future generations to come (rather than keep secrete that info for maximum profit), including helping weed out non-genetic morphs. last thing we need is neonink-injected or hyporeagent-injected embryos/hatchlings of reptiles being sold as new colors akin to the existing *commercialized* 'GLO-FISH' industry in aquaria

it would eat my conscience if i were to say, consider selling temp-induced visual morphs as genetic if i realized it was the temp doing it.

however if there were a genetic component found (ie, a recessive morph that expresses(or expresses somewhat more than it would not normally) even in the het state given certain modified incubating parameters),(or, a totally developmental morph i'd be open book about it online and off, not secretive.

guess i aint hungry. some of these new F1 morphs out there may not even be genetic but rather, developmental or even exogenous(!) if the vendor is hungry/desperate enuf.

anyways, i take it because many/most reptiles' sex is determined by developmental temperature rather than sex chromosomes, it would make sense that there are likely no genetically sex-linked morphs.


however given in chelids the concurrance of hypopigmentation with incubating at temps for males, that is ready

of course yea, there is the grey area of breeder 'secrets' to bring out the best in genetics and so i understand where you're coming from in that you would keep quiet about say, fine differences in the mutation color morphs that are discernable to the seasoned breeder/expert that helps with sexing even hatchlings etc or say, fine differences in 'possible het' hatchlings (progeny of Aa x Aa, where a is the desired recessive traint, for example) that help distinguish an AA offspring from an Aa offspring to the saavy eye, or what at what temp you get the most pastels, melanistics, bluest tones in terrapins, or at what temp u get the blondest testudos, or the pinkest Caramel Albinos, etc, etc

i can just imagine those whose income depends or depends greatly on keeping the rare albinos and other morphs they offer 'rare' in the industry face the reality that their breeding pair investment costed 5000 (or way more) and whenever they do get babies they won't sell for much more than 2500 each and maybe in 10 years they may cost 250 or less (vaguely remember reading some rant like that about sulcata prices on kingsnake)

wouldn't be surprised if currently or in the near future, breeders are sterilizing their rare morph hatchlings prior to sale to keep the prices high
 
Old 10-21-2014, 01:32 PM   #4
Robert Walker
Quote:
Originally Posted by neilg View Post
consider selling temp-induced visual morphs as genetic if i realized it was the temp doing it.

Yes, I agree this would be super shady business.

however if there were a genetic component found (ie, a recessive morph that expresses(or expresses somewhat more than it would not normally) even in the het state given certain modified incubating parameters),(or, a totally developmental morph i'd be open book about it online and off, not secretive.

Like you mentioned, your opinion could vary greatly if someone was simply a pet owner versus a an actual heavily invested business who depends on trade secrets to keep them alive.

it would make sense that there are likely no genetically sex-linked morphs.

This gets debated back and forth

however given in chelids the concurrance of hypopigmentation with incubating at temps for males, that is ready

wouldn't be surprised if currently or in the near future, breeders are sterilizing their rare morph hatchlings prior to sale to keep the prices high

This one has never crossed my mind, but anything is possible.
I guess the bottom line for me, trade secrets are vital to stay afloat and ahead of the competition. I guess it depends if this an actual "trade" to someone or not too.
 

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