White Oak Gray rat snake question...

any visible differences in appearances between normal gray rat babies and the white oak phase babies?...Also is this a "trait" or just a look, like Okeetee is a look in corns? Thank folks...

I've been watching this thread hoping you'd get a response.

I've never seen a baby White Oak but believe I read they look like normal grey ratsnakes babies.

However, they represent a locality more than a "phase", although those terms often seem to be used as synonyms so I can't be sure what you're asking.

Back in the late 80's I was part of a reptile display put on by the Northern Ohio Association of Herpetologists. It was a one day show put on at the Cleveland Metroparks Zoo. One of the less active members showed up with a White Oak Grey Ratsnake that was stunning. It litterally looked like it has swam through white paint. I have never seen one that approached that specimens coloration. I now wonder if it also was hypomelanistic or something in addition to being from the White Oak locality.

At any rate, I've always been intrigued by these snakes but have never kept them. I hope you get more responses.

I hate to say it, but you might try the ratsnake forum over on Kingsnake. I realize a lot of people have issues with KS but the ratsnake crowd over there has a lot of people interested in locality of SE US ratsnakes.

I bred the white oak phase gray rats some years ago.
They were the only gray rats I worked with, so I don't have anything to compare them to first hand, but I don't think they were much if any better looking than regular gray rats.
I believe they just fail to darken with age like the regular gray rats. Perhaps there's some degree of hypo melanism involved, I don't know.

The adults however were very nice looking snakes. I don't think they were as nice as what Chris described, mine didn't look like they had white paint on them, but they were exceptionally light as compared to most gray rats you see.

I never looked into the details of the trait much, so I can't really say what it is attributed to.
I bought mine on a whim actually. I was making a small order with a dealer and added some other things in to justify the shipping costs, and the gray rats were among them.

Hi Clay,

That's my take on it. All the other white oaks I've seen were just "different" grey rats. Not necessarily anymore attractive.

This thread prompted a google search and I found the following page:

http://home.flash.net/~alterna/repti...phe/elaphe.htm

There should be two white oaks pictured. I believe it's the lower male pictured that most closely represents what I saw in Cleveland. But even then the specimen I saw had sections of white-washed look. That might be a better description that white paint which is more suggestive of a pied-ball look.

That snake attracted a lot of attention that day so it was just not me who was struck by it - pun unintended :-)

Chris and Clay, thanks for the info...I just think they are neat looking snakes and something I would like to work with for fun in the future...I see white oak gray babies for sale around the 'net every year, and then when you read all the "Is my gray rat a white oak" threads that show pics of regular ol' grays I was hoping there would be a way to discern the babies...

I came across a Florida panhandle white oak in Birmingham, Alabama back in the late 80's, and purchased him when he was about eighteen inches long.
The vendor told me that this particular color morph was best suited to hunting on the white sands of Florida beaches and the like, and considering his striking coloration, I would have to agree.
I have to say, he was spectacular, both in appearance and docility.

Very, very pale white with silver saddle markings and eyes like new dimes. I had him for almost nine years, and his temperament was so calm and mellow he could be trusted to be handled by toddlers. He topped out at about five and a half feet.

I'm trying to get my hands on another one of these beauties because to me, they are simply the most beautiful snakes I've ever seen. Everywhere that claims to have them on the net is no longer a viable source, and it's frustrating to not be able to locate what I would have guessed would have been a popular color morph.

Still looking, too.

We breed White oak phase Gray rats. The answer to your question as to why you don't see many in my opinion is that you have to raise them for about a year to see how they are going to color. Much like Jungle Carpets. Most people want to pay almost nothing for babies so it is not worth it for many breeders to work with them.
We are on to our fourth generation of Grays now. They have a special place in our hearts as being my first pet snake many years ago. I will try to take some pictures of a few of last years babies from the same clutch to show some variation to those interested.
Thanks Sam

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hhmoore

As promised a few pics from today. All three are females from the same clutch. These were picked as hatchlings to raise up for future breeders based off of three different looks I like. The first is going to be a light girl when adult. She gets lighter with every shed. In blue in the pictures unfortunately.

The next girl has a more metallic look to her and will have very contrasting saddles when adult.

The last girl here is my main project. fading pattern with peach orange highlights. I am hoping with the added color maybe more people will have interest in the Grays. This has been the hardest color form to get to be reliable.

My snake Bishop was of the metallic look like your second female there.

Definitely the phase I'd like to own some day.