Kevin Smith - oreganus@hotmail

Originally posted by oreganus
It doesn't matter how much proof I or anyone else show you,
Kevin

I haven't responded to this thread, because I was waiting for the OP to post the info he said he was going to post. The way I see it there are two main issues (I don't have an opinion either way on the pro/anti venomoid issue)
issue
1. The issue of weather the snake did or did not meet the "criteria" for return relating to a guarantee or at least a breeders willingness to make a deal right.
issue
2. Was the snake shipped illegally and irresponsibly via overnight or was it shipped responsibly and legally via delta.

issue number 1.
The OP had ample opportunity to meet criteria for issue number one, the seller offered him the opportunity to return it COD, all he had to do was show a photo, to at least acknowledge he still had it (at least I hope this is that thread where that was the stated offer, so many pages, so many threads......)
issue number 2.
This is where I quoted your statement. The fact of the matter is that all it would take is the airbill info and/or a copy of the reciept showing the shipping-receiver info, and those of us with no other issues would be satisfied, that you were the standup guy in this complaint/issue.

Like I said there are many of us who only care about the credibility issues of the buyer and seller, and don't think the venemoid issue has anything to do with it. Given the OP has apparently flaked out on issue #1, if you took it upon yourself to satisfy issue number 2, many of us lurkers would agree that you came out on top on this complaint, and that the issue was resolved.
JMHO

Ok...let's just leave it to the facts as presented:

1.) You admit that you shipped this guy a King Cobra

2.) He has supplied a UPS tracking number that jibes with the date of shipping that had a point of departure within walking distance of your home.

3.) He has supplied Emails that support the fact that you shipped the cobra through UPS

4,) A reliable source (Ray Hunter) has stated that Delta has verified that you did not ship the Cobra through them.

Since you have presented no facts information or evidence at all with the exception of flat blind denial, this is what we have to come to a conclusion on.

I am not in any way shape or form an anti-venemoid person...I really don't have an opinion one way or another about venomoids so that can't be my motivation.

You have continually evaded every direct question aimed in your direction since this thread started and have basically taken the stance that everyone is against you because you sell venemoids. This alone has been your only explanation.

In all honesty Kevin, you actually seem like a reasonably intelligent individual from the structure and wording in your posts, so let me put it to you. Presented with the contents of this thread as is, what conclusions do you think any person of average intelligence would come to?

I have to admit that others have recently said what I believe and much better than I am able to. The first issue that is of concern from what I have seen has been settled. Kevin has done what if not more than any reasonable seller would do when there product has been placed in question. For this Kevin I applaude you, you have tried to resolve the issue of the King in an admirable way!

The second issue is where my concern and I am sure the vast majority is placed. How was the King shipped? If the King was shipped UPS then not only did you risk the well being of the people involved in shipping the snake but the financial future of other reptile breeder and distributors. That is where I think the main issue with you is centered by the majority and non of the other issue matter at this point.

Kevin you have been asked on multiple occasions for some form of proof to support your exclamations of proper shipping, others have offered to assist you in obtaining that evidence aswell. To this point there has been no evidence to prove your statement but there has been circumstantial evidence that points to the potential that you have shipped a Cobra to the state of NY which I would assume that at some point the snake did go through the city of New York, via UPS.

I personally could care less about the deal that you made with the buyer for the snake or the issue of venamoids. I do care about my future ability of being able to ship my reptiles in the future. This issue is even more important to me and others like me that doesn't live anywhere near an airport.

Personally I believe the only issue is shipping and that can easily be resolved with a little cooperation for you Kevin. You also complain about the length of this thread that can also be easily remedied by you Kevin provide evidence or merely quit replying.


Jonathan Brumfield

I will make one other comment. In an earlier post Jeremy made mention that Kevin had stated he did not have the money to refund him. If he truly did make that statement, I for one would not ship the animal to him COD at a later date. All you risk at that point is that he will not be able to pay the COD at the Delta counter and the animal either sits there or is returned.

I had it happen once with one of the major carriers, I am speaking from experience.

Also, what possible use would the pics Kevin stated he wanted be to him as security that Jeremy would send the animal back? ll that would prove is that Jeremy had the animal in his possession long enough to take a picture. It does not ensure that he would ship the animal back after receiving a refund. He would have no idea as to when the pics were taken. It could have been months prior.

If the offer for the COD shipment had been made first, I agree that that it would have been a fair offer of resolution. However, the rest of Kevin's story just does not make sense.

I fall back to my previous post and say that you have to form tour opinion from the evidence at hand.

It is funny how this thread can go from completely idiotic, then on the last page we can get intelligent posts. I will say this, I will try and track down the airbill and info. There are alot of factors that are making it hard to do, not only the fact that this deal was so long ago and I don't remember the date or rough time frame that he got the snake, but also because there were several issues in getting it shipped to him because he apparently is never available to pick stuff up. It took like three weeks to get the snake shipped because he couldn't pick it up, then the addresses and names kept changing. I told Ray that via email, not to drag him into it, but just to give a reference that I mentioned that before. It was anywhere from 6months to a year ago when this all took place. I will try and see what I can turn up. I don't remember airports,name, or town it was sent to. That isn't an excuse, that is the truth. This guy has been a pain from the time he sent payment for it. He obviously has no experience with kings, since if you get any king that is eating as great as the one I sold him can be switched to rodents fairly easily. For the record I did put "experienced individuals" on the ad because it was such a great snake and I would hate for it to be killed because of lack of experience. I know this has nothing to do with the ups argument, but I thought I would give everyone a little more insight into the situation. I will see what I can turn up.
Kevin

Originally posted by oreganus
Your little piddly crap just wasn't worth mentioning. I have paid as little as $56-57 for delta, I never said I haven't paid as much as $200-300.

WRONG!!! The lowest Delta charges is $68 for up to 50 pounds. You are so full of crap. And still have not proved anything. Why? Because You can't!!!

Go ahead, prove me wrong. You would if you could

Originally posted by oreganus
and your point is what?? didn't I post that I ship venomous and NONvenomous through delta?? didn't I post that I have paid more than $55 for shipping on several occasions. I only ship in legal containers and boxing methods with all the stuff that goes through delta, how could you do it any other way?? they do inspect the boxes, if you know so much about delta, you should know that.
Kevin

The MINIMUM charge is $68 for up to 50 ponds. It does not matter if you are sending venomous or not!!! Stupid liar!

It would cost you $68 to send a matchbox with your 2oz brain in it. Don't you understand wht " up to 50 pounds" means? You just keep making a bigger ass of yourself

Originally posted by oreganus
You shouldn't have chimed in about something that you don't know anything about. They are required to check ALL freight now to see that they are properly packed and boxed. ".
Kevin Smith

Ray told me that he has NEVER had ANY of his shipments inspected in the past 2 years. WHOOPS, KEVIN LIED AGAIN!

Or is Ray Hunter Lying? Go ahead and say it...I dare you!

I have a question about that, would it say "king cobra" on the computer or would it say "live venomous reptiles"? Last time I checked it very rarely says the species on any airbill or box.


Have you ever even been to a Delta? IT IS LAW THE THE WOOD BOX BE MARKED "VENOMOUS REPTILES" AND THE COMMON AND SCIENTIFIC NAME OF THE CONTENTS!!!!!

You CLEARLY have never shipped DELTA

Originally posted by Suncoast Herpetological
I will make one other comment. In an earlier post Jeremy made mention that Kevin had stated he did not have the money to refund him. If he truly did make that statement, I for one would not ship the animal to him COD at a later date. All you risk at that point is that he will not be able to pay the COD at the Delta counter and the animal either sits there or is returned.

I had it happen once with one of the major carriers, I am speaking from experience.

Also, what possible use would the pics Kevin stated he wanted be to him as security that Jeremy would send the animal back? ll that would prove is that Jeremy had the animal in his possession long enough to take a picture. It does not ensure that he would ship the animal back after receiving a refund. He would have no idea as to when the pics were taken. It could have been months prior.

If the offer for the COD shipment had been made first, I agree that that it would have been a fair offer of resolution. However, the rest of Kevin's story just does not make sense.

I fall back to my previous post and say that you have to form tour opinion from the evidence at hand.

COD can present problems, but if I was going to return someones money on a guarantee, I would want proof that it was dead (not relevant here) or that it be sent back, then I would send the money. Not sure if you return the money first, but there are a lot of scammers who try to keep the herp and then get money back. So either the OP would have to send the king back on his dime (which is a requirement of a lot of guarantees) or he can send it COD. Either way there is a chance he might not get his money for the snake. In which case he would then have a very good bad guy case.
As for the photo, wasn't the original deal 6 months or more ago? Yet this seller offered to refund (granted apparently there were some e-mails saying he didn't have the money) for a return of the king? If so I would personally want a photo too, one that could show it was recent, like with a dated newspaper or something. Especially one where it seems the person may not have been able to provide it with proper care (live snakes, if that is all it was eating) 6 months is a long time, could have died in that time or OP could have sold it because it wasn't feeding on rodents.

Again let me say I am only going on what has been posted. I have no way of knowing if the OP is telling the truth, until and if he posts this alleged evidence. Same for the seller. Those being the points I posted in my previous post.