4 heat packs in a box DEAD SNAKES whos to blame

Would 3 heat packs have gotten them there safe possibly, cold definately... Emeralds are not ball pythons and if they get a little cold bad stuff can also happen

I wonder what the Temp was in Omaha at 10:15 and what the temp was inside the box. I also wonder what the temp was outside and inside the box 5+ hours later.

So now Im picky to want non cooked snakes HUH

I never complained about the other orders BULL

I asked you in person what you do with pukers that keep puking. YOU YOURSELF TOLD ME YOU FREEZE THEM. I told you they were from you. I also called and complained on the first order about the uros tails, the size of the emeralds. You did say I could ship back, but as it was our first order, and I have a store to supply I bit the bullet. As you said Im known for being picky, gee must suck to expect the same quality as you supply in return.

Others dont want to sell to me fine, thats the way it is.

I spent the money at your shop, because I drove to florida to supply my store. Half way down I was informed that the shipment I was coming to pick from had been cancelled. I went to all the other importers before hitting your place. You did have the biggest selection.

Why didnt I post your name to start, look above and see why. I know you have the animals I will need to supply my store. Why did I drive to florida, to try and get the quality I feel my customers deserve.

Now Im a bad guy for driving to florida to try and save us both headaches like this. Whatever man. You guys are all the same man. Its always the buyers fault, unless your the buyer. Funny you had no problem with my shipping the beardeds to you guaranteed by 3:30, when I mentioned I did that to save a measly 7 dollars you made ZERO COMPLAINTS. Sure had they died I wouldnt have been paid. But I get your box by 3:30 on the day it was scheduled to be shipped, and its my fault.

Hell I could have sold thoose dragons for cash to many other people. I sent them to you to try and build a relationship for the future. I ordered the emeralds, cause honestly there were the only thing at your place that I knew I would get the quality I wanted without picking it myself. Figured it was a "safe" order.

Originally Posted by Xtreme Reptiles

Would 3 heat packs have gotten them there safe possibly, cold definately... Emeralds are not ball pythons and if they get a little cold bad stuff can also happen

Ok Alfredo thanks for clearing that up for me and thanks for coming out as opposed to your your name being tossed out there waiting you to respond I respect THAT

That’s why many TOS (mine included) state that live arrival is guaranteed only IF the recipient signs for the package at first attempted delivery. Mickey was not there, his fault. We cannot be sure if the snakes would’ve died had he been there to receive them at 10 am. As for the 4 heat packs, yes, they seem a little bit too much. But I think that they don’t bare a lot of relevance in this case. Why? Because Alfredo’s TOS clearly state, and I quote:

• Live arrival guaranteed.
-DOA's must be called in ASAP and verified by Xtreme Reptiles employee.
• 5 day health Guarantee on all animals.
-All animals will be replaced or credited on next order.

Alfredo, you are clearly stating you guarantee live arrival. No ifs or buts. You forgot to include that little clause (which I’m pretty sure you will add in the future) that the buyer “must be there to sign for the package at first attempted delivery”. You guarantee live arrival, you have no disclosure on carrier delays, and you do not specify critical high and low temperatures under which you cannot be held responsible.

My opinion is that Mickey should have been there. But I also contend that 4 heat packs were probably too much. Enough to kill them if the package was opened at 10:30? We don’t know, and the fact is that one of them barely made it alive so they might have survived.

But Alfredo has a live arrival guarantee and if he wants to be taken seriously in the future he has to abide by it.

I have pics of the dead snakes, and box temps on the shop computer.

I took box temp pictures at 4 pm. On heat packs temps hit 112 degrees.

A few inches from heat packs (as all three were) was 94-96 degrees with the lid open.

With the box lid just creeped open, the temp was 88 degrees on the crack. So the ambient was at minnimum 88 degrees in the box. That was in my store with the temps approx 72 degrees on the floor.

The pictures were supplied to Mario, and the email was responded to with pretty much sol responce, prior to this post. I have thoose emails at the shop, but I cut and pasted them in the thread allready in the first few pages. The little one liners are all the responce I have gotten since the pics.

On the phone we both tried to seem like this could be worked out. The minute the pictures were sent out, the tone changed on the emails. Again I did not "out" Alfredo here. I wanted others opinions whom had nothing to gain from the situation. I emailed Alfredo after posting, with a link, and left it at that. I planned to give it a day or two and hope Alfredo would contact me.

Am I picky, YES. But again is cooked being picky?

Originally Posted by Xtreme Reptiles

Would 3 heat packs have gotten them there safe possibly, cold definately... Emeralds are not ball pythons and if they get a little cold bad stuff can also happen

If they get a little hot bad stuff can obviously happens too.

First of all with dealing with ANY WC's you want to be VERY picky... if you arent... well your crap is gonna die
secondly 4 heat packs on emeralds? come on? im sure florida is fairly good temps and if you would have checked even forty at mickeys does not warrant 4 heat packs. you should know that... i wouldnt have even shipped balls or corn snakes with four heat packs. the pint of the heat pack isnt to give it similar temps to what you would be keeping it an in an enclosure. they are in there to keep it from reaching too low... those snakes were probably dead halfway through the entire shipping process... so thre hours regardles wouldnt have mattered either way

Oops, ALFREDO, again with the name thing.

Again I accept that I should have been there. I will be honest, in the past I have generally had them send the package next day saver, but this one slipped.

If the day was cooler, or warmer I wouldnt have even called Alfredo. Had there been 2 or less heat packs in the box, I wouldnt have even called Alfredo.

Could I controll the fact I wasnt at the shop for delivery, YES

Could I controll the fact that there were 4 heat packs in the box, NO

Thoose are the facts, read them as you like.

4 heat packs would have added an additional 60 degrees to the temps. 15 degrees per pack right? Unless you are shipping from Alaska to Alaska, that is too many. Heat packs seem to be at their warmest within the first few hours, IMO, so the snakes would have overheated at that time. Not in the few hours between delivery attempt and actual delivery.
I could be wrong as I am only learning about heatpacks and shipping with them.