Andrew Potts- I want my money back

Originally Posted by bigdogg

Ok well I am just putting my 2 cents in. not sticking up for either party.

So your saying the heat has no way to escape the box. Yet it can get in the box. If heat can get in then heat can get out. I have shipped things to places in the 80's with heat packs and everything turned out fine. Last night I dropped a package off here in toledo, ohio where it was easily 65-70 degrees and shipped it to california where it was like 80-83 today. Snakes got there and they were actually under 80 degrees yet the outside temp was above 80. Kinda weird how that happens huh. If it is a well insulated box. The temps outside shouldn't matter much. As it is like a cooler. Keeps things cold or keeps things hot. Now it will effect it in a small manner. But not enough to kill it. Plus heat packs only get 84 degrees. So your telling me 80 degree temperatures are going to make an 84 degree heat pack warmer. I think not. Not saying the heat didn't kill the animal. It very well might have. But It is not that hot to make the heat pack heat up.

The heat pack I am holding in my hand, a UniHeat, says it averages 100 degrees. And that's one.

Originally Posted by laterob

Andrew - what type of pictures did he attach? Are there any where you can see your address?

Gotta' zoom in really close with good eyes to see it.

Originally Posted by Robert Potts

I stand corrected. I'm nothing more than a piece of feces and will always be. I'm scum and all I can hope to be in life is pond scum. In this case I'm not budging one centimeter. Kevin is as guilty as the others, end of discussion. Andrew

PS Like several people have said, take me to court.

Yikes. Someone just showed their true colors. Refusing to be in the wrong and make amends for an error. Prob just made it to the top of a whole lot of people's "do not buy from list".

No, Andrew...I am sorry. He said he sent you pictures and a tracking number. I was wondering if he took any pictures of the box he sent back to you, to see if there was a zip code error or something.

I am still stuck on him saying that only 2 of 4 things he sent made it to you, Andrew. Do you have a weird address? What ever happened with the FedEx inquiry?

I was thinking that since you said 'no snake, no refund' he may have wrongly addressed the box.....

I don't post on the BOI very often. Andrew you have some beautiful animals and they definitely are top notch. I don't know anyone really involved. I don't know anything about the 3 men involved in purchasing this snake and I only know that Andrew posts on RTB to show off his beautiful aztecs.

I completely agree with Diem and Chris Canada-Smith on this.

The reality is, they purchased a snake that was worth more than my husband's car is worth. That snake has a hefty price tag on it and with this economy, this price tag should not be taken lightly.

Now, the snake is dead. While speculation leans towards a shipping error, you will never get your proof you want of how that snake actually died. Is it a shame? Yes. But you will never actually know for sure exactly what caused that snakes death.

While the OP and the other 2 have not shown themselves in the best manner to you, the reality stands that you have a bad guy post now. Inside the bad guy post, shows that you acknowledge this sale, you acknowledge the snake is yours that is dead, Diem shows the timeline of the pictures to show that the pictures were indeed taken the day of the snake's arrival, Diem also does more detective work to show that the temperatures were too high for 2 heat packs and it could have just been an honest error, and this post is showing that you are really, really, really hesitant about refunding this guy his money.

For reputation sakes, your snakes cost way too much money for the person who does not know you to invest in, if they feel you will not be willing to refund the money if something happens during transit. Think about your future. I am not saying no one will ever purchase from you because that is not the case. However, more and more people are selling aztecs now and with more people selling them, if someone had the slightest hesitancy on buying from you over this thread, then they will go elsewhere.

It is not like someone will say, "Well, this snake only costs $150, so if something bad happens during transit, I will only be out $150." The person will say, "Wow, that snake costs $10,000 and if something happens during transit, will I get my money back? Hmm, this person is selling a similar snake for $6,000 and I have more faith in getting my money back if something bad happens from them."

I am sorry this is happening but reality sits that you are the one that can set this right. You are the one that can show off how awesome you are when something doesn't go as planned.

You have to make your choices and other people will be the judge on what is right and wrong. Unfortunately, you are caught in the middle of this.

Personally, I would refund the guy his money. I would not send another snake because of the threats and blackmail attempt.

Good luck in the decision you make.

Star

20/40 hr standard shipping heat packs do state that they can reach 100. Typically, and the way they are supposed to work from my understanding, is that each pack will raise the temperature inside the box 10 degrees, so 2 heat packs means the temps would be 20 degree higher than ambient temp.

I see lots of shady behaviour here but I am also of the opinion that it would appear the boa did arrive DOA.

Originally Posted by ShadowAceD

The heat pack I am holding in my hand, a UniHeat, says it averages 100 degrees. And that's one.

I've already explained several times how I packed the shipment but it's still not a 100% grantee the boa would have arrived dead. I'm saying the people who received it would have no problem killing the snake because they think I'm not treating them fair. As I said before I could have shipped those packages to Sean Griffith's address when I thought I was shipping to Kevin Bailey. If I did ship to Sean's address then things get bad because Sean dislikes me and knowing what I know about him now he would easily kill the boa. In an e-mail I posted earlier he gives me grief because I won't give him a breeder discount which he's not entitled too. In a previous e-mail Kevin states he's not a partner but yes he allows Sean to use his name to intimate the blackmail e-mail. I forwarded Sean's blackmail e-mail the day I received it and then a few days later he sends me an e-mail to inform him if Sean is using his name. I resend the Blackmail e-mail from Sean to Kevin and no responce. Like I said, have Kevin produce one e-mail where he condemns the actions of these two or has even a single critical word. Kevin's as guilty as the others. Andrew

I'll say it.. You killed a $4500 snake. Personally, I wouldn't deal with you just for asking for the body back.. Just me though. I've done business with Sean, it was a pleasurable experience. I sold and shipped him a gravid/loaded female boa 6-8 yrs ago. He could have drummed up anything to pack me; but he didn't! And kudos for 'manning up' and apologizing Sean!

Originally Posted by Robert Potts

I've already explained several times how I packed the shipment but it's still not a 100% grantee the boa would have arrived dead. I'm saying the people who received it would have no problem killing the snake because they think I'm not treating them fair. As I said before I could have shipped those packages to Sean Griffith's address when I thought I was shipping to Kevin Bailey. If I did ship to Sean's address then things get bad because Sean dislikes me and knowing what I know about him now he would easily kill the boa. In an e-mail I posted earlier he gives me grief because I won't give him a breeder discount which he's not entitled too. In a previous e-mail Kevin states he's not a partner but yes he allows Sean to use his name to intimate the blackmail e-mail. I forwarded Sean's blackmail e-mail the day I received it and then a few days later he sends me an e-mail to inform him if Sean is using his name. I resend the Blackmail e-mail from Sean to Kevin and no responce. Like I said, have Kevin produce one e-mail where he condemns the actions of these two or has even a single critical word. Kevin's as guilty as the others. Andrew

You killed the snake Andrew. you owe him a refund, and Kevin should NOT have to take you to court to get it. You know very well all the fees involved in that, and few people actually can follow through with taking a person to court.

I think you've just royally trashed your reputation.

Originally Posted by Tom Pecanic

I'll say it.. You killed a $4500 snake. Personally, I wouldn't deal with you just for asking for the body back.. Just me though. I've done business with Sean, it was a pleasurable experience. I sold and shipped him a gravid/loaded female boa 6-8 yrs ago. He could have drummed up anything to pack me; but he didn't! And kudos for 'manning up' and apologizing Sean!

Glad to know your will do business with breeders who will engage in blackmail. Andrew