JENNIFER HARRISON GOOD GAL!!!

Jen,
First of all, I want you to know that I am very sorry for what you have been through with your collection recently. I wish you the best with your animals in the future.
With that said, please don't take this post as an attack. I have some questions that I am sure many have pondered. I am going to throw this out here and let you correct me where I am wrong.

You decided to try and save some of your animals instead of culling them off and starting over. You also bred the animals and had several of the breeders die after breeding(including the male Mojo that fathered the Mojo you have listed for sale in the classifieds.) You then hatched multiple clutches in the same incubator and are now selling the offspring.

I know that you have been very critical of other keepers who breed and sell animals from their collection when they may(or may not) have recently had a problem with the health of their animals.
Since you hold the rest of the hobby/industry up to high ethical standards, I think it's fair to ask you a few questions:
1. Isn't the nature of the respiratory infection that nearly wiped out your collection pretty unknown?
2. Can the offspring that you're selling possibly be infected, or even asymptomatic carriers of that respiratory disease?
3. Why are you $elling animals from your collection if it may be putting other keepers entire collection at risk?

Robert, the answers to all of that are already posted in the ad, on my journal, and in Wyatt's thread. We know what this virus is -- we originally were a little unsure because of test results, but that was until we got more information about how the antibodies actually develop. Now there is no more question as to what it is. The virus only sheds and becomes infectious when there is an active sympomatic infection -- which there hasn't been in over 60 days, which according to Dr. Jacobsen and the other vets working on this case, is the cutoff point for infection. The virus doesn't transmit vertically from mother to offspring, as confirmed by all 3 vets involved -- and as told to me by said vets, my babies are just fine and will not be carriers. My original animals may or may not be carriers, as they were never symptomatic, but ARE vaccinated -- which is why they will never be sold or leave my posession. But any new additions I buy and any offspring I produce will not be affected.

I've been following this closely as well, and am just curious...if your original animals may or may not be carriers, isn't there the possibility that they could infect new additions? Or does the vaccination take care of that?

As mentioned, the virus is only potentially infectious when an animal has active symptoms and is able to shed the virus in mucuous secretions into the air. All symptomatic snakes died months ago, save for the 2 females that got better and are now thriving aside from some lung scarring. As long as those 2 don't come down with it again (nor any of the ones that didn't get sick in the first place), there is no risk of transmission. As a side note, my vets and I decided it would be a good idea to vaccinate all babies and incoming new additions for the next year, just as a precaution. So, that's what I've been doing.

Believe me, if I thought there was a risk in selling my offspring, I wouldn't be doing so. I asked every vet involved in this ordeal repeatedly if they were positive that the babies would be fine. Each one gave me the same answer every time -- yes.

I believe you. I know the last thing you would want is for anyone else to go through what you did. I just wanted a little clarification. Thanks!

Quote Jen:
Robert, the answers to all of that are already posted in the ad, on my journal, and in Wyatt's thread.

I don't see any answers in your Classified Ad, and any potential customers from the classified forum should not be expected to be aware of, or to have read your journal, or Wyatt's thread.

From the classified Ad:
This guy is the last one left from my mojave clutch that hatched on 4/8/08 -- and he's one of the best of the bunch! He has some amazing blushing and intense color -- he was going to be my hold back since I lost his father, but I got the chance to get a different older breedable male from a friend that has even more intense blushing, so this boy is now available.

Is that it? That could be taken to mean that his father died of old age, escaped, or was lost some other way besides to an infectious disease that nearly wiped out your collection just a few months ago. I would hope you are informing potential customers of the risk they may be taking when purchasing your animals. Just because you were open and honest about what you are/were going through(and I respect you a bunch for that) doesn't mean that everybody has read the info. and is aware of it.

Quote Jen:
They are not carriers, all 3 vets cleared them. If anything, they inherited the immunity from the vaccinations their mothers recieved (as told to me by Dr. Jacobsen and Dr. Gordon).

Well then, maybe we should all get our animals vaccinated so that our collections are immune to this disease as well .

Quote Jen:
As a side note, my vets and I decided it would be a good idea to vaccinate all babies and incoming new additions for the next year, just as a precaution. So, that's what I've been doing.

You don't think that your classified ad should inform any potential customers that your babies have been exposed to, and vaccinated for this disease?

Jen, as a hobbyist I am very sorry that you lost so many of your animals, and wish you the best with your collection in the future.

I think you should have culled your entire collection and started over. Instead, you chose to try and salvage what you could and that was your decision to make. If you were just keeping these animals in a closed collection as a hobbyist, then I would not have a problem with it. However, You are selling these animals to the public for a profit and potentially putting other keepers collections, and the hobby as a whole at risk.

IMO,You should have either culled your entire collection and started over, or went out of business and kept them for hobby/pets only!

I couldn't believe it when someone told me you were selling ball pythons. I had to go to the classifieds and see it for myself. It's real easy for your vets to give their opinions on all this. They have nothing at stake. What if they're wrong(doctors are wrong from time to time so vets may be too)? What if your animals do carry something bad and you send them out to infect others collections? I think it's extremely irresponsible at best, for you to let any of your animals leave your house or let any new animals come in.

Originally Posted by JenHarrison

I would expect most people to have stricter quarantine procedures now after knowing what I went through -- regardless of whether they buy a mojave baby from me or from someone else, that baby should still be in quarantine in a separate room for whatever amount of time before joining their established animals. That is just one more added protection for their collection, and should be mandatory at this point for anyone that keeps snakes after learning what can happen. If they choose not to do that (or do it half-arsed as I did and had to learn the hard way), then that is also their choice.

I would have expected you to have had better(any) quarantine procedures in place before all this happened. It's not news that there are diseases that can wipe out an entire collection. You've been around a bit. You know this and chose to ignore your knowledge. If you were a newbie I could understand it a little more. I do understand that some lessons need to be learned the hard way and it's great that you have been so open about the whole thing. It's insane for you to let those animals go out though and it's even crazier for someone to buy them knowing your whole story. This is, of course, all just my opinion which I kept to myself throughout your crisis. Now that you're selling these though, I'll go ahead and say what many are thinking.

Originally Posted by JenHarrison
I would expect most people to have stricter quarantine procedures now after knowing what I went through -- regardless of whether they buy a mojave baby from me or from someone else, that baby should still be in quarantine in a separate room for whatever amount of time before joining their established animals. That is just one more added protection for their collection, and should be mandatory at this point for anyone that keeps snakes after learning what can happen. If they choose not to do that (or do it half-arsed as I did and had to learn the hard way), then that is also their choice.

Jen, people have had to deal with devastating diseases before you and I'm sure others will have the same troubles after you. If not with the same, something similar.

It should have been mandatory before your experience. Now that it has happened to you others should take greater care? If that were the case, that last line you wrote could pretty much be used by Wyatt for the position you find yourself in. After all, the knowledge that one could lose their entire collection to IBD or something else has been there for many years and others have experienced it. Wyatt could simply state that you "choose not to do that (or do it half-arsed as I did and had to learn the hard way), then that is also their choice." Nobody would support that answer from him to you. I think it is a really a poor choice of words to justify your position to sell your animals.

Can someone please Further explain how A mother could pass on an immunity to her offspring through a vaccine? I dont know much about that whole process, and to me, it just sounds like something that is questionable. Im not saying that it cant happen, or is impossible, just that id like to know more information regarding the subject.

Thanks.

I'm sorry Jen, I like you, but I strongly disagree with you selling any animals from you collection so soon after the massive die off you had.

I know you say that the babies could not have been infected from the father but.....................here is my concern.

Let's take for granted that the father could not directly infect the baby.
BUT the father of this clutch died from the virus and COULD have infected the mother which in turn COULD infect the babies.
Remote chance but would YOU want to take that chance? I know I wouldn't.
I don't think enough time has passed to be certain that there is no remnant of this virus still around.