Don't get scammed!

Originally Posted by hhmoore

I'm one of those people that doesn't do business by phone....I hate phones, and I like having a written record of what is said. I will give my phone number, if asked; but I also immediately point out that I am nearly impossible to reach by phone. If talking to me on the phone will make you feel better, leave your number and a few time periods you can be reached. I will call back; but if the stated times conflict with my schedule, it will be a few days (though if we have been in email/PM communication, I will explain that, and give a day to expect my call).
I'm not trying to hide anything, it's just my reality - the ringer on my phone is turned off the vast majority of the time because sleep is precious to me & I'm too damn lazy to turn it on and off every day. (Now that I think of it, my answering machine is still tucked inside a dresser drawer from a reorganizing episode about a month and a half ago...oops...out of sight, out of mind )
Has this cost me sales? Probably...but it isn't going to change. AND, if I give somebody my number & they don't speak clearly, I don't worry much about calling them back.




**Any interest on starting a thread on how to be a good buyer? A lot of people could use some pointers, lol.**

Glad I'm not the only one who avoids phones... I have a bad schedule for phone-talking, I like having everything in writing, and on top of that phones just make me nervous. Really nervous. I will give my number but I also point out I'm pretty much impossible to reach and email is the best option due to my phone-hating nature.

Other than that though, great list

The one about the telephone area code~ everyone should consider that telephones travel with people now and area codes don't mean much of anything. My home phone area code is 256 but the phone I use most often and give out to strangers is my cell phone~ area code 951 from when I lived in California. I kept that phone so I wouldn't have to give out new phone numbers to all my current and past customers~ and I use that phone for business transactions because I always have used that phone for them. I don't want to do business on the phone~ I want written agreements~ I don't want strangers having my home phone number (thats for friends and family) My old customers and my new ones~ and anyone who gets an email from me is welcome to have my cell phone number. Its a 951 area code and I live in Alabama now.

Pictures~
I WILL take additional pictures IF I think your serious and not yanking my chain. Otherwise......I'll wholesale it out cheap before I bend over backwords for every single idiot on the web asking for 20 specific pictures of the animal just to then tell me it costs too much (despite knowing the asking price). Customers have to sound a bit more serious than most of the illiterate net speak responses asking me if I'll take more pics or trade for whistle and a blow pop.

Seriously~ if you want good animals~ you have to be willing to work with the seller as much as the seller has to be willing to work with you. If my phone number puts you off........then your probably the kind of customer who would get on my nerves anyway.

I have a couple that fall under the "might be a sign of shadiness" category.

1. Not answering all questions asked. I realize most breeders are busy people, whether their business is a full-time thing or they have another job and breeding is just a hobby. However, it still makes me wonder if they even read the whole e-mail...or even care about reading the whole e-mail...or if they're refusing to answer the question(s) for more sinister reasons. At the very least, not answering questions asked makes the seller seem like they don't have time for you.

2. All pictures of the animals are out of focus, in extremely poor lighting, etc. Seems shallow, I know (and it might be), but if someone never has good pictures, it could mean a couple things: (1) they don't know how to take an in-focus picture, (2) they don't care about the quality of their pictures, and/or (3) they're trying to hide something about their animal by only taking photos in terrible lighting or only posting out-of-focus pictures. The first two reasons make me wonder if the person knows other basics, such as how to properly package a reptile, what shipping companies allow reptiles and/or snakes to be shipped, if the person is even old enough to be selling stuff on the Internet, etc.

2.5 Same goes for horrendous grammar, websites that are impossible to read/understand or could induce epileptic fits, or any other thing that might make me question the seller's age, education level, maturity level, etc.

I definitely have problems with sellers who won't provide additional pictures. I bought a snake from a guy who has a good reputation here, but when I asked for additional pictures of a snake I was interested in, he pointed to the picture on his website. Yes, I saw the picture, but it was one picture. How do I know this person actually has the snake shown in the picture? I need at least two different pictures to beat down the suspicion vibe. When I explained the reason for wanting extra pictures, he immediately obliged, and I bought the snake with no further problems.

As for talking on the phone, I detest it too. However, if someone doesn't like using e-mail but you'd like some proof of the agreement, then here's what ya do: make the seller/buyer send a "contract" via e-mail that both parties must agree (and reply) to via e-mail. Include the price, shipping date, payment plan, etc. (and maybe even a description of the animal). For the couple art commissions I've done, even after we've agreed on everything, the information is usually scattered across many e-mails, so when everything is settled, I send out a more formal e-mail outlining all the points we'd agreed on, and the commissioner has to agree to my little contract before we can continue.

Cheryl, good point about phone numbers. I usually use my cell phone, and it's still an Indiana number. Same goes for e-mail addresses, actually. I have several of them, and though I try to keep them all straight (each one is used for something specific, like work, personal, business), but sometimes I mess up. Also, when I'm buying stuff, I use a different PayPal e-mail address than the one I'll be using to sell snakes. I'm glad the people I bought from didn't refuse on the grounds that I seemed shady! As for phone numbers, I'm thinking about using Google Voice instead of my cell phone. For one, I'll know when someone is calling about a snake (otherwise, if the number isn't in my address book, I usually ignore the call), and second, I don't have to give out my cell number!

But yes, I realize that not one or two of these things on their own are necessarily evidence of a scammer; I'm just putting some more info out there as to possible reasons why good people might have a red flag or two.

How are you using 2 paypal accounts. do they both list your business name? I know you cant have the same bank linked to two accounts... I tried. I finally closed my personal paypal account and just stuck with my biz account.

Originally Posted by Southern Wolf

How are you using 2 paypal accounts. do they both list your business name? I know you cant have the same bank linked to two accounts... I tried. I finally closed my personal paypal account and just stuck with my biz account.

Well, for one, I haven't actually set up the second account yet 'cause I'm lazy. But I don't need it yet anyway....

Second, the account I currently have is for personal purchases only, which I make through a credit card. I do not have a bank account linked to it for several reasons. (1) I don't want to accidentally pay for something directly from my bank account! (2) It helps protect me if my PayPal account were to be hacked, somehow. I'd rather someone get my credit card details than my bank account number(s). (3) I didn't see the need to link my personal account to a bank account; I can pay for stuff without it, so why risk it by having unnecessary information available?

A few people have posted about preferring to avoid the phone. I completely understand, and am the same way. I prefer (almost insist) on having everything in writing. Even as a webdesinger...if I have a phone conversation with a client, I will send out a follow-up email which outlines what was discussed. I try to avoid any "he said, she said."

My gripe is...if the seller flat out refuses to provide a phone number when asked....

Originally Posted by polasian

- A seller cuts off certain avenues of communication. ("I wont correspond via PM nor E-mail" or "I refuse to talk on the phone," etc...)

I take issue with that. I'll ask for a sellers phone number, even though I have absolutely no intention of ever calling. If they don't provide it, then they've lost my business.

Over the course of 10+ years (when I was HEAVY into reptiles) not once had I been scammed. I've never lost a single penny on a transaction. I've never received a misrepresented animal (there were times when I received the wrong animal, but the seller made it right immediately). I've always been taken care of. Luck probably played a role in that...however my nitpicking did as well. I will not loose a wink of sleep if I irritate a seller by requiring elaboration on an obvious discrepancy. If you're located in Alabama but your area code is from California...then I'm asking "Why?" If I believe the answer, then we'll keep talking...if not, then I'm moving on.

It's also in the sellers best interest to cater to the buyers wants (within reason...20 pictures is overboard, I agree). Being transparent can win you repeat customers. Many buyers are loyal (especially in this day and age when new scammers are popping up left and right). I've spent tens of thousands of dollars with the handful or breeders who have gained my trust. Our long and fruitful business relationships were founded on my requests for reasurment. I'm not asking for urine samples...I'm simply asking for things that an honest seller should have no qualms about providing.

Originally Posted by Cheryl Marchek AKA JM

Seriously~ if you want good animals~ you have to be willing to work with the seller as much as the seller has to be willing to work with you.

I agree. If Ben Siegel tells me that he cant provide additional pictures of a bearded dragon, then I'll understand. However, if Joe Blow isn't willing to send me more photos of his holdback Gecko, then I'm not willing to sending him my money. Every request needs to be within reason, and the buyer should be understanding if some requests cant be met.

There could be a seller who wont answer a single question, or send out a single photo, yet you'll still end up receiving the animal you wanted. Then there could be a scammer who will give you all that you require, yet still send you an empty box. One can always get scammed...you just have to do your homework to lessen the potential of that unfortunate outcome. If you get scammed and you think back, slapping your forehead, saying "Dammit!!! I should have seen that coming," then you screwed up...period! On the other hand, if you get scammed and it comes as a complete surprise, then you got screwed...period! There is a big difference as to your culpability in those situations.

There is only so much one can do...but I will always take the steps that prevent me from being caught up in a situation where I'm slapping my forehead. Non of my requests are unreasonable...and if any of them annoy a seller, so be it. I'm simply doing everything in my power to protect my hard earned money.

Ooooo I got one, I got one!

The over zealous seller!!! That's almost as annoying if not more annoying then the 'ignoring seller'.

Recently I inquired on an animal. And after the first response from the seller then I receive response number two immediately following the first response saying:
What's your phone number?
This is my PayPal address
When do you want it shipped and this is what shipping would be.

My inquiry was simply the sex of the animal (if they may have known) and what shipping would be. The sexing question wasn't answered but they were more then willing to send me three emails in a 15 minute period as if I had said "I'm buying it." and send me the information of where to send payment to.


I hope I'm not re-mentioning something. But wanted to share that.

Nicholas: Oh, I completely understand (and agree) about a seller absolutely refusing to use a certain mode of communication. And if a buyer wants to talk over the phone, then that's completely fine, whether I'm comfy with it or not.

Oh, geez, YES, Christine! That's an almost guaranteed, "Ah heh heh, yeah, um, I'm going to go stand over there," response.

I think we can just call that stalkerific selling behavior and agree it's creepy

Good thread!

Originally Posted by polasian

Some RED FLAGS to look for in a classifieds ad;

- Refuses to provide information which would otherwise allow you to validate who they are.

Yeah, like for instance, their name. After the 3rd time I asked someone for their name with no response...

they either don't want my money or realize I'm not gonna be an easy scam... gee I wonder which one it was?

edit to add - I think phones are yucky and I hate talking on the phone (I do it all day long for work). I'll always provide my ph# when asked but I don't put it on my ads, I also like everything to be in writing.