Opinions on Neil's banning.

::smacks himself in the forehead::

Patriots... It's "Go Patriots!"

It's good that you can all show your hometown pride by cheering for your loseing football teams... Just some of us can show hometown pride by cheering for our winning ones. ::big toothy grin::

I've said it a few times already but I will echo the wording used by others further along on this thread...

Neil may have used strong, antagonistic language... But only because he felt strongly about things. And nobody, even those who have personal problems with him, can deny that he supported what the majority here would consider proper ethics. Responsibility to the animal's health, responsibility to the customer in terms of both satisfaction and education and responsibility to the "herping community" in general for the most part by generally conducting himself with some class and a sense of humor.

There are really only a few things where he crossed lines. A few subjects that set him off. We all have them really... Show me someone in person who talks about hybridization being a good thing and I'll give them a face that looks like it went through the engine block of a Chevy... There are just things that every person feels so strongly about that they need to comment. The trick is to figure out a way of failing to do so when the time is not right.

I can see Rich's position- it made extra work for him and cluttered up quite a few threads with some very off topic information... But I also think that the vast majority of what Neil had to say was constructive and benificial.

I hadn't bothered mentioning it before but the choices in the poll didn't exactly have the option I wanted...

I don't think Neil should be gone (And I already told Neil himself several times that I thought he should just let certain things lie). I also however see a good number of... traps sitting in any number of posts. People who incidentally mention something that they know will trigger comments from him. Mentioning situations but getting it "slightly off" so that he corrects it and then jumping all over him for talking about it. I also should mention that it wasn't generally Dave who did this. If attacking someone over and over is considered disruptive and cause for banning... Why not antagonism and instigation?

The answer to that, of course, has already been posted by Rich. Because there needs to be a happy medium. Control without oppression... he could ban everyone and anyone if he wanted to... but that would defeat the intended purpose of this board...

However to those who did deliberatly bait Neil into posting, playing on his emotional triggers... Many of you blame him for disruption... had you stayed quiet, he would have as well.

And remember... Patriots. Not any teams that had a 6-10, 5-11 or 11-7 win/loss ratios... And as to the Raiders claiming it was luck last year... Vinatieri can kick in the snow...  Tough luck.  Kansas City will be destroyed Next sunday (22nd), The raiders will be smacked around November 17th...  they may win tomorrow at least, The Patriots beat the crap out of the Steelers, softened them up for the Raiders.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As for Neil, who cares </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Fred,

Maybe you were not serious, but if you are I will have to amicably disagree.

Even though I have disagreed with Neil in the past I was NEVER &quot;after him&quot; (although he was quite &quot;explicit in letting me know that he felt the contrary). Was there a justification for banning him? Yes (and maybe even earlier than it actually occurred).

Will he change if he is let back in? Most probably not. He is a very passionate individual as stated by his signature at the bottom of every one of his posts. Will the world stop if he is left in or out? Well, I guess we all know the answer to that one...

Having said this, I feel it's enough punishment for him as it is right now. Don't you think it's ironic that the &quot;dozen or so&quot; that were supposed to be against him, was actually the exact figure of the ones that actually supported his presence?

My apologies in advance to Rich Z. because he is the owner of the site and he has the say on what has to be done. But my second vote on this poll is a proposal to delete this whole thread.

Regards,

Daniel

<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>

Just
one
question
does Neil play for any of these teams?<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'> <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>

Hey All,

spam_ In an attempt to stay somewhat on topic; Neil got what was coming to him, he was told what was gonna happen, he kept it up, now he has to live with the consequences...them there's the rules!!!....and no, I don't feel his being banned should be permanent....this time.

spam_ spam_Now, on to important stuff...THE RAIDERS!!!!

spam_To the Patriot fan...a fumble is a fumble....you, me and everyone else in the NFL knows it....and you still have only a 1-1 record in the Super Bowl....the RAIDERS have won all 3 they've played in....'nuff said.....for now.
spam_ To all the AFC West also rans:the RAIDERS have won the division two years running!...the Chiefs?...Please!...we own your butts now, and you know it....don't make me bring up the final game of the 99-00 season...aaaaaight?
spam_And the Charger fan?....you have the nerve to take that paper bag off your head long enough to say something?....the RAIDERS have won the last 9 of 10 from the Bolts....it's gonna take a few more wins before we even recognize you guys as a pro team!!
spam_ The Jets?.....we beat you when it mattered, didn't we?
spam_ And oh yeah, spam_the Cowboys still suck! LOL

spam_ spam_ ********I LIVE FOR FOOTBALL SEASON!!!******

I do not remember seeing anywhere that stated that football was legitimate topic in this forum. &nbsp;Or anywhere on this site, for that matter.

This is a reminder to stay on topic. &nbsp;THE ENTIRE MESSAGE. &nbsp;Not just one sentence, and then believe you are then free to go off on an unrelated tangent.

My choices are to either delete ALL messages with some offtopic content about sports, or edit the messages to remove that sort of text. &nbsp;Guess which option is easiest for me to do.....

Come on you guys... What the heck does the Raiders have to do with Neils ban? I only put Go Chargers under my name because i am a fan, not to start a bunch of back and forth crap! I have no problem talking trash about football with any of you (lets just keep it in private e-mails). Save this board for what is suppose to be used for!!!

Rick Steward/Ricks Reptiles

I gotta agree with Rick on this one. If you guys want to talk about the Raiders, or any other team, do it via email, the Boa Forum or the &quot;Just Talk&quot; forum on rtb. Football has nothing to do with the topic at hand, nor anything on the site.

If you guys (John, Sal, Fred) will note, the Webslave posted his feelings about the tangent early this morning, and y'all just ignored it. C'mon guys, I know all three of you better than that. Don't give Rich any more work than he already has.

I am as just as passionate about my snakes/boas(especially my Anerys&#33<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> as I am about my beloved RAIDERS and football in general...but, in my mind,this is/was just an innocent tangent gone off on by fellow reptile enthusiasts....where no malicious negativity was being displayed, no name calling, no one's ethics or husbandry were being questioned, or anything of the ilk was being done... what, or who is it hurting?...it was all in done in good natured fun.....sorry if that ruined all your reptile talk...we didn't mean to....honest!
spam_To Ken:.....I didn't ignore the Webslave, we posted at the same time....even tho my sentiments may have been the same, I would have respected HIS wishes, and his bandwidth, and refrained from posting....and I'm hoping the webslave is wise enough to assume as much.
spam_To Rick:....do I sense a little animosity towards the RAIDERS and their fans?....hmmmmm, I wonder why that could be?.....you wrote what you did because you're a fan, and I did exactly the same thing...albeit in more length and detail, I grant you!!....but hey,you emailed me to talk trash about our teams, and you could have just as easily emailed me your above post with your concerns....maybe a tad too much RAIDER love on the board for ya, huh? LMSABAO
spam_To the Webslave.....I use and appreciate your site....other than letting my avowed passion for the RAIDERS sometimes get the best of me, I have always respected and followed the rules here and will continue to do so....you have made your wishes known on this, so it's up to me to follow them there rules or suffer the same fate as Neil....thy will be done!
spam_ To John and Fred:....We just can't seem to get a call to go our way, can we? LOL....much RAIDER love to the both of you!
spam_ This should effectivly close this part of this thread, any responses to/for me should be emailed.
spam_ We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming!!

Well I have to just go my own way here and I am not going to say I either agree or disagree with anything stated so far because I really don't want to take sides here because I don't feel that taking sides is what this about. &nbsp;If Neil was warned to control his behavior by the webslave then right or wrong Neil should have complied. &nbsp;The webslave warned and then took action, so what did Neil think ? These were idle threats ? &nbsp;I &nbsp;Do feel that he should be allowed back on to post since this is a public forum, but he just like the rest of us need to follow the rules here. &nbsp;If you have a disagreement with the webslave you don't just disregard something he tells you because you don't agree with it, you comply and deal with it privately. &nbsp;I feel that Neil handled the situation wrong, but by making a mistake ( which we all do ) it should not permanently ban him from posting. &nbsp;I do think that this thread has turned into a way for everyone to express their gripes about Neil publicly without him being able to comment or defend himself publicly, which I don't agree with. &nbsp;These are my opinions on this topic and I don't expect everyone to agree with them but that is fine because that's why they are not called facts but opinions. &nbsp;If Neil overstepped his bounds after he was warned then he had to expect something to happen, which it did, but that does not make him the super villan of the internet either. &nbsp;In my opinion if you don't like his posts then don't read them, that is your decision, no one is forcing anyone to do anything here. &nbsp;If you have a gripe with Neil or anyone else then address it to them, not on a thread where the person can't reply to your gripes. &nbsp; Again I am neither defending or attacking the man, but this is how I feel.
On the positive side which a lot of people have overlooked .... Neil can be a big asset to the herp community because of his experience and knowledge and as long as he can be of a positive influence then I don't think he should be banned from posting forever unless he continues to disregard the rules that are set up for us ALL to follow. &nbsp;Earlier in this thread the webslave made a statement that he did not want to allow references to sports and warned people, now if those people persisted in bringing up their favorite team even in the most sly of ways, and the webslave takes action and bans them should that be permanent, does that make them bad. &nbsp;If you don't like what they have to say then simply don't read it. &nbsp;


Gary Walsch
Sunshine State Reptiles

Come on Sal, your last post still has nothing to do with Neils ban. All you want to talk about is the Raiders, not the subject at hand. I have no animosity against any team, or fan. Neil is someone who deserves a second chance in my eyes. And your &nbsp;posts have nothing to do with it! <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>

This thread was started about Neils ban, not football!

I hope to see Neil here again someday! And I am sure he would have said something about your post as I did! &nbsp;

He is a good guy in my book!

Rick Steward/Ricks Reptiles