MJC Serpents...

Originally Posted by ShadowAceD

Dan, seriously, just shut up.

All of your frilly wordiness and over usage of synonyms do nothing to further anything in this thread.

She made mistakes. Many people do (you have). She is trying to correct them. If a person makes a reasonable effort to fix something, even when it is simply the right thing to do, then you need to give them the chance to continue that path. Refusing to lend them such courtesy just shows you have no desire to see them correct anything.

There is nothing wrong with telling someone you are glad they are moving in the right direction, but, please, by all means, continue your lame attempts to reignite the thread when there is absolutely no need for it.

Right!

Praise given, even when some think it is not warranted, leads the offender to continue with good decisions; whereas your diatribe, inspires negativity and stubbornness. Dan, whatever your intent, it is not met with glowing accolades ...

TSOPP has only been open 8 months based on license info, thus Mindy has only been selling or transporting snakes to/from TSOPP for a max of 8 months. Layla died 16, almost 17 months ago, thus could not have contaminated the store. Dexter was the only snake Mindy had at the same time as Layla based on her accounts, which is backed up by her Instagram pics/posts, her Facebook pics/posts, and her YouTube videos. Her next purchase was 3 months after Layla died, and the few others were staggered every 1-3 months after that. So if Dexter tested negative, which he did, then he couldn't contaminate the store either. Her transportation to/from the store and intermingling of new animals with lack of QT could have contaminated the store collection or her other snakes if she brought in something that was infected or a carrier, but that's a separate issue. As far as the IBD death related to Layla, that is put to rest with Dexter's tests.

I don’t see where it's become a "lovefest". Even if her reasons for conducting the tests were because she felt "backed into a corner with no escape", she STILL had them done. Expensive tests that racked up a hefty vet bill and given the method her DVM used, put her snake's life at risk. She could have taken the path that MANY other questionable people in this hobby have taken, and kept on selling her snakes with no testing, hid behind her storefront sales, sold snakes under a pseudonym or family member (as Damian Wyatt did), and completely blew off any responsibility to this community just to keep raking in money. She didn't. She chose to do the right thing and have the tests done, and done through the lab that is the absolute foremost authority on reptile virology and diagnostics. That deserves praise because that was a responsible decision -- one we want OTHER new keepers to see and also follow, and not get scared off or say "What's the point?" if they still get crucified even if they choose the responsible action.

Is Mindy perfect? No. But none of us are. She still has to grow, mature, learn to stop being arrogant/selfish/stubborn, learn when to accept advice from those who have been doing this for awhile. She has made poor choices in lack of proper quarantine, husbandry methods, cohabbing, giving questionable advice, and flipping reptiles. We've all pointed those things out to her. However, does she not deserve a chance to learn from her mistakes and make adjustments to her ways? She's 19 years old and has been keeping reptiles less than 2 years. She's a kid. I was 24 when I went through all of this, and in my 3rd, almost 4th year of herp keeping. I screwed up, didn't properly quarantine, then paid the price for it. I listed snakes for sale in the very beginning that my DVM advised were safe, then when the community pointed out that it was still risky and not a good idea, I pulled them back off the market and shut down. So because I made mistakes, should I be labeled a bad guy? Why can't Mindy do as I did and step back, take some time, use this as a learning experience, adjust her methods, and become a better keeper?

IMO, what Mindy does from this point forward will determine who she becomes and what her reputation ends up being. She started on the right foot by being responsible and doing what needed to be done. If she continues down this path, does more research, gets more experience, and allows her mentality, decisions, and interactions to mature, I don’t see why she can't become a positive, beneficial member of the herp community. She deserves a chance to do just that, no different than the rest of us had.

Gee Dan, she is a kid, she is new to all of this. I think she has learned some valuable lessons from all she has been through with all of us. I think it will make her a better person and teach her that there is more to just buying and selling. I think she deserves a chance to do all the right things. This was a big start for her accepting that she was wrong and making the corrections not for us, but for herself. I have been keeping herps for a long time and I made mistakes when I first started out too. Yeah she was stubborn and arrogant at first, but she finally saw that we were right and she DID do the right thing....we all have to start somewhere and we all have to learn the hard way sometimes. Mindy, just keep doing the right thing and all this will pay off for you!

Originally Posted by ShadowAceD

Dan, seriously, just shut up.

Diem, seriously, don't make the mistake of thinking that I give a damn about what someone like you thinks of me or my posting habits. If you really think your opinion plays even the smallest part in dictating how I choose to post, you're an even bigger narcissist than I'd given you credit for being. YOU putting on a public show of being so sappily supportive of anyone is just plain comical, especially to those who've seen the real you. I'm guessing that you just see a lot of yourself in a budding know-it-all, like Mindy, and can't help instinctively wanting to help such a person out. Seeing her pontificating on FB must have given you a warm-fuzzy. Or, maybe this is just becoming a boys vs. girls kinda thing. I guess the pink team's spoken.

You were somewhat right, however, in thinking that I have no particular interest in seeing her flourish. With so many people out there who consistently do the right thing simply because it's right, I see no value in supporting those who've had to be browbeaten to even come close to that mindset. Kissing Mindy's ass is pretty much a slap in the face to those who've put in the time and effort to really learn what they're doing. It's being overly dismissive of those who didn't decide that they knew everything, after 1 whole year of keeping - poorly, at that.

Now, do you keep this thread going, looking for the final word that you're probably craving - showing that you really couldn't care less about how the continued exposure affects poor Mindy's plight - or, do you suppress your ego and let it drop? Quite the pickle for a fellow egotist, eh? Decisions, decisions. I'll shut up if you do.

Originally Posted by Snake-Queen

Praise given, even when some think it is not warranted, leads the offender to continue with good decisions; whereas your diatribe, inspires negativity and stubbornness. Dan, whatever your intent, it is not met with glowing accolades ...

Praise given, especially when it's undeserved, does nothing more than encourage mediocrity by setting the bar as low as possible. It basically amounts to a participation trophy. Why put in any real effort, when some are willing to go out of their way to give you cookies for doing what any sensible person would have done long ago, without the need for coercion or fanfare? Your hilariously reductionistic statement that this whole thread amounts to nothing more than a "little bump in the road of life" isn't helping anyone - least of all, Mindy. Yeah, I know it sounds kind and sage, so I guess that's all that matters to some. I just hope that I'm not the only one who sees how truly hollow your words are.

If you're teaching her anything, it's that eventually doing one good thing will somehow outweigh and negate the last ten bad things she did. That is my whole point - this degree of praise is simply going too far. She's already grubbing for karma, which tells me that she already feels as if simply following through with the tests has completely vindicated her. That's a pretty quick about-face, from playing the victim to thinking she's the victor. There's nothing to even slightly imply that she's changed in any meaningful way.

You add nothing more than the most vapid comments, expressing laughably undeserved and flowery sentiments, yet I'm the one who seeks accolades? Oh, the irony. Besides, you have no idea how my last post was actually received. There just may have been several people who privately appreciated my choice to openly go against the flow. For all you know, some may have seen my input as being the voice of reason or sanity. Even with the ugliest truths, beauty is still in the eye of the beholder. Seeing that you consistently demonstrate an utter lack of critical thinking skills, I'm sure that that consideration never entered your mind. Hell, there are obviously people who manage to convince themselves that your input is worthwhile, so anything's possible.

Not to be a total ass, but you couldn't even manage to do the basic math necessary to realize that 10 posts per page would yield a 100-page thread, so maybe you'll understand why I'm hesitant to let you have any influence on my thought-processing.

Originally Posted by Iguanalady

This was a big start for her accepting that she was wrong and making the corrections not for us, but for herself.

I think it'd be fairly foolish to believe that she's done anything that wasn't a direct result of the information in this thread intruding on her real life. It wasn't very long ago that people were still pointing out her lax QT procedures, so it's not like we're significantly past the point where her mistakes were still coming to light. Time will tell if she's actually learned anything, so I think it's way too early for all the attaboys.

Dan, apparently you are intent on being obtuse. You give praise to promote good behavior ... the hope is she will continue to learn from those more experienced than herself. Yes, this is a bump in the road of life, if I had given up after my poor decisions, I wouldn't be where I am today. Most people learn from their mistakes, never to repeat them.

Your opinion of my comments, fails to sway me to your opinion. Helping young people recognize their mistakes and allowing them the opportunity to correct those mistakes is what some of us are about.

Yes, Mindy has other issues to correct, but if she is truly working to change, why not give her the chance? Oh, I forgot ... you know everything.

To anybody who so feels the opposite of Mr. Graybeal, I'd like you to know that Andy and his wife put me in tears yesterday. I got slapped in the face with what was the biggest lesson of my life. Not getting into details, I now feel worse than ever about this whole situation and what it did to Andy and his family and his dream. I actually cried in front of them, and that is not like me. I've known them for less than three months and what he has sacrificed for me and gone through for me to try to better me and help me grow is unbelievable and you wouldn't believe it unless you were me. I have every one of you who pushed me, made me cry, made me feel like a "piece of meat," made me hate the reptile community, and who made me finally suck it up and get these tests done to thank. It was a rough road, and I deeply apologize for being so unprofessional, cocky, and determined. Things went to far on both ends, but what happened, happened. And now is my only chance to finally be able to learn and grow from my mistakes. Yes, I am extremely opinionated and stubborn. Yes, I need to work on the way I shove things down peoples' throats, Andy is trying very hard to teach me those qualities. The only thing I have against Andy is that he wants me to be a businesswoman and take my heart out of what I do, and that's not happening. I am working on trying to get him to put his heart into what he does. So yes, we clash there. But I'm not going to become heartless when I am dealing with animals that depend on me 100%.
That said, I sincerely hope everyone can take my apology seriously and understand that I really do want to be a better person in the community, I just need to get over my tough horse-girl attitude. My entire childhood consisted of competing with my horses, so I am very competetive. Yes, the snake world is very different.
To those like Dan, you are thinking very wrong. I know you think the same way as he does because you've seen this whole thread and Facebook and such, but I'll tell you one thing, I'm changing. And I have mainly Andy to thank for that. He gave me this opportunity, and its been rough, but now it needs to get better. For his sake and mine. So I really, truly, am trying to better myself.
Those of you with a heart, I deeply thank you. Those of you who are saying in your heads that I am just looking for a pity party or playing the victim; you'll see.

Also, when this situation here stops, I will again post the results. I'll keep watch.

Dan, I've been called a pessimistic (not true), cynical (very true) person often in the past, but you make me look like I have rays of sunshine spurting from my backside. You are a sad human being who is intent on being sad and making laughable attempts at bringing people down to your level of misery. I'm highly skeptical of Mindy, pretty much as much so as I was before, but this doesn't mean I'm going to belittle her decision to do the right thing.

On a similar but separate note, it seems to me that you and Lucille have to look at every situation in the worst possible light, often jumping to conclusions and coming up with theories only attached to reality by the slimmest of strings. You both also assume the worst of everyone. I feel bad for both of you as the experiences that caused you to be this distrustful must have really sucked.

Mindy,

May I remind you that your boss and his wife threatened a member here? Seriously threatened?


So, while they "made you cry" please think about their actions (and yours!) and what you've done to others. It's not a pretty picture.

I'm of the opinion that you, and them, have quite a few apologies to make. And still more learning to do.


(And I'm neither as questioning as Lucille or as jaded as Dan, just so you know.)

For the record, Mindy did apologize to me and so did Andy. While I am far less quick to forgive Andy -- a 40 year old man vs. a 19 year old teenager -- given the gravity of his words and actions against me (calling the place I Externed at, attributing false statements to those veterinary professionals and their place of business, calling places I interviewed at, threatening not just me but my 8-year-old daughter, degrading military veterans as well as veterinary personnel, etc.), Mindy is a different story. The lines of communication are open and she is finally hearing. She is aware of her mistakes and looking to fix them. I am more than happy to help her in any way that I can.