Hello. I purchased a pair of White Lipped Pythons from Evan Stahl a few weeks ago. I was working on a trade with someone for them, and they asked me who produced them, as they were advertised as CBB from Evan. It sounded like he had a whole clutch, and I just assumed he bred them. I told the person I got them from Evan Stahl and I assumed he produced them, since he advertised them as CBB. This person came back and told me Evan didn't produce them and wanted to know if I know who did. OK...No big deal. I'll just email Evan and ask him who produced them. I put the email string below. It actually starts at the bottom and works up from there. The bottom line is Evan won't tell me who produced them, as it must be top secret. Then comes back and tells me that I just need to take his word because he's been in the business for 25 years. So because of this, I should just accept everything he tells me as gold. I have news...I've been in the hobby since '96. I'm no rookie. I don't just expect everyone to believe every word I say. Granted I have been out of the hobby for a few years...I'm no dummy. I have never had anyone refuse to tell me who produced animals before or after I have spent my hard earned money for them, when they have been represented as CBB. Especially on something like White Lips. Everyone will want to know if these are CBB or CH or whatever. So, now the conversation goes something like this with my potential trade deal for these White Lips:
Me: (I advertise them as CBB)
Potential Customer: "These are Beautiful. I really want them. I"ll trade you *****."
Me: "I'm in. When can we meet?"
Potential Customer: "I'm free Friday. By the way...Who produced these?"
Me: "I got them from Evan Stahl. I assume he did since it sounded like he had a whole clutch when I bought these."
Smart Potential Customer: (After some time passes while he's doing his research) "Even did not produce these. Do you know who did?"
Me: "I thought he did. Let me ask him who did."
Potential Customer: "So you have no paperwork on these?"
Me: "No."
Potential Customer: "Ah Ha! Yeah, that's way too much to risk to lose the animals I'm trading, only to get possible Farm Raised/CH animals. Thanks anyway and good luck selling them!"
That's how the conversation ended with the trade. Now I have a pair of White Lipped Pythons with no proof of being CBB and no paperwork, which means I have to sell them as CH at best...which isn't what I bought them as. Yes, I know...My fault for not getting all of this up front. Shame on me.
As a side note, Even called me the week after I received the White Lips, asking me about shipping animals to me and the way I wanted them shipped. I have never done business with him before this so I don't know him whatsoever. I was expecting a shipment of geckos from someone the next day, and I thought when he called me, it was for those geckos. After getting off the phone with him, I realized this wasn't my gecko shipment and I called him back several times with no answer to tell him I don't have another shipment from him, and he has his wires crossed somewhere. Then I finally get ahold of him and tell him and asked him what he was shipping me. He told me some Kings. I told him those weren't mine. He said "What?". I said those are not my snakes. I got the white lips from you last week. So he went back just in time to get the order straight and get them to the right person. Then as I'm reading what people are saying about him on the BOI, I have found at least 2 other times when people said he shipped their animals somewhere else. Even, for 25 years in the business, and your word as good as gold, you certainly aren't on top of things! Half of what I read on here is negative about him. The White Lips are in good shape, and eating, etc. I'm not complaining about the animals...but his practices and ethics are questionable at best. This will be the last time I will be sending him my money.
So that night I email Evan and this is how the conversation goes...from bottom to top: Please pay attention how he tries to flip the conversation to something I never said, nor eluded to...as what I see with all of the threads on here concerning him. He always seems to pipe in with anger and say it's someone else's fault...always the other person's fault...never his. There's a lot to be said just in that alone.......
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you are not a liar. I have been in the business for 25 years and am telling you that they are captive bred, I guarantee that, they came from me. There are no farm bred d'alberts pythons
-----Original Message-----
From: pbhughett72 <pbhughett72@aol.com>
To: evansnakes <evansnakes@aol.com>
Sent: Thu, Jul 24, 2014 2:01 am
Subject: Re: Message about Baby D'alberts or White Lipped Pythons from
pbhughett72@aol.com
You're missing the point. I never said I expected you to breed all of your animals. I simply said I was trying to to a deal today and was asked where these animals came from and I said you. I represented them as CBB, and I was called out on that. I thought you bred them. No big deal. I was simply trying to find out who did, so I don't look like the liar I appear to be now. no worries. Wasn't aware it was a big deal to find out. I'll sell or trade them as farm raised.
-----Original Message-----
From: evansnakes <evansnakes@aol.com>
To: pbhughett72 <pbhughett72@aol.com>
Sent: Thu, Jul 24, 2014 12:53 am
Subject: Re: Message about Baby D'alberts or White Lipped Pythons from
pbhughett72@aol.com
I have immediately answered every question that you have ever asked me. I have never tried to hide anything from you. I sell thousands of animals and it is not possible to breed them all. Everyone that breeds and sells to the pet trade buy from other people and resell. I held the animals, made sure they were healthy and eating well and then sold them to you for a very reasonable price. Not sure what more I need to do.
-----Original Message-----
From: pbhughett72 <pbhughett72@aol.com>
To: evansnakes <evansnakes@aol.com>
Sent: Thu, Jul 24, 2014 1:35 am
Subject: Re: Message about Baby D'alberts or White Lipped Pythons from
pbhughett72@aol.com
I didn't think they were WC. I just didn't know if they were farm bred (possibly WC import parents, etc.) or USCBB. I was asked today who bred them and I said I got them from you and thought you did. Then I was told you didn't, and I didn't have an answer. Not a good spot to be in.
-----Original Message-----
From: evansnakes <evansnakes@aol.com>
To: pbhughett72 <pbhughett72@aol.com>
Sent: Thu, Jul 24, 2014 12:23 am
Subject: Re: Message about Baby D'alberts or White Lipped Pythons from
pbhughett72@aol.com
they are captive bred. there are no farm bred d'alberts and how would they be wild caught when they were almost new born babies.
-----Original Message-----
From: pbhughett72 <pbhughett72@aol.com>
To: evansnakes <evansnakes@aol.com>
Sent: Wed, Jul 23, 2014 11:59 pm
Subject: Re: Message about Baby D'alberts or White Lipped Pythons from
pbhughett72@aol.com
That makes it difficult to resell them as CB. Are these USCBB animals or Farm Bred? I was working a deal today and got toasted because of this.
Patrick
-----Original Message-----
From: evansnakes <evansnakes@aol.com>
To: pbhughett72 <pbhughett72@aol.com>
Sent: Wed, Jul 23, 2014 10:53 pm
Subject: Re: Message about Baby D'alberts or White Lipped Pythons from
pbhughett72@aol.com
Hey Parick, I do but he sells them to me so he doesn't have to so he doesn't want me to tell people
Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
-----Original Message-----
From: pbhughett72 <pbhughett72@aol.com>
To: evansnakes <evansnakes@aol.com>
Sent: Wed, Jul 23, 2014 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: Message about Baby D'alberts or White Lipped Pythons from
pbhughett72@aol.com
Hey Evan,
Do you know who produced these white lips?
Patrick