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General Business Discussions This is a general purpose forum open to business related topics concerning Reptiles and Amphibians that are neither appropriate for the Board of Inquiry, nor sales, purchase, or trade solicitations.

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Old 12-27-2002, 04:07 AM   #21
Seamus Haley
I've already pretty much voiced my opinions about some of Jeff's descisions, he's a good guy but he's starting to turn a bit sour as his success and ego grows...

One thing though Jason, the comment about using one website to jump to another using a link...

All those people who go to the website, even for a second, add to the number of hits that a website gets, any website making it's money off of advertising and functioning as a commercial venture likes to have hits increased because it will draw in more and more advertisers.

Further, all those links on KS's mainpage... people have to PAY to get those on there, so Jeff increases traffic by having an easy to remember URL with a lot of links (many unique hits) then wins out again by making people pay for a tiny little blue line with their name on it.

Point being, Jeff's bandwidth is paid for, judging by his prices and his traffic, I'd tend to say it's paid for way above and beyond any of his costs and is making him a tidy sum of money.

None of that is in any way a reason for him to make demands on Rich about Rich's website. What he is doing by making these threats and forcing fauna off KS is tantamount to blackmail and is an action that seems directly intended to create a monopoly... Sort of the way Microsoft only let other companies use any of their products if they complied with all of Microsoft's demands. Jeff Barringer started out as a know little do nothing punk kid who asked for a load of help from some of the true giants of the industry, he asked for favors, he connived and wheedled and begged for little items... an hour of time in a guestchat, half an hour a day responding to people on his message boards, a KS hosted care guide for a species... He did it so well in fact, that KS began to be the focus because people started to realize there was always something of interest and that's when he started to become a bit more overbearing, a bit more controlling working up constantly, always going after whoever it was that had annoyed him last, whoever was the next weakest target for him to prove his dominance on... I personally think it's some sort of phallic envy thing but that's a whole seperate issue.

Jeff hits Daytona most years... hangs around after the fact as many people are likely to do... Take a look at who he hangs around with. It's not the people who have accomplished more than he has, not even close... he hangs around with people who have not done as much as he has because his comparative success strokes his ego the entire time he's with them, giving him some sense of self worth and importance.

He's certainly not an out and out crook (Tim Rainwater style), but he's trying to build himself into something of an authority in the industry, he hasn't got the brains or herp knowledge to go about it that way so he does it by berrating people who he thinks he can get away with it on.

Do I agree about the Adam Block banning... Well, yes I do, he violated the TOS of the website with forethought if not malice and Jeff was well within his rights to get rid of him.

Do I agree that it's acceptable for Jeff to threaten people within the industry with banning and lawsuits and petty juvenile "my dad can beat up your dad" playground style nonsense when someone does something that he doesn't like on a website other than his? Heck no I don't, the guy is crossing boundaries left and right and eventually he's going to finally hit that point where he shoots himself in the foot as he goes about it. Or possibly the face if this pattern of activity keeps increasing at the rate it has been.
 
Old 12-27-2002, 09:53 AM   #22
Classic Dum's
Quote:
Jason, do you believe that Jeff Barringer was fair and ethical to ban my site from KS because I would not bow to his demands to delete a thread on MY BOI?
I wish I could answer that quetion Rich but the fact of matter is I have only heard 1/2 of the story. Its human nature to twist things to our liking. I am not at all saying that you have done that intetionally but you know as well as I that when posting in an enviroment such as this its human nature to word things to sway people towards our side, whether its done intentionally or not. Taking that into acount with out hearing the conversation I cant make a judgment on whether he was right or wrong. All I have tried to do is maybe from my point of veiw shed some light as to why.
Quote:
Do you seriously think I would set up this site, where other corn snake breeders can offer their animals for sale in direct competition with me
Rich thats all great, but see its differant from a buyers ppoint of veiw. Simply when it comes to corns snakes your sorta the Bob Clark of the corn snake world. Your site isnt going to hurt you either way because when people come to it they have already made up there mind, do I want to spend $10 for a normal corn or do I want to pay $? more for one of richs and have something from his line. Its no differant Bob can sell albino burms all day for $200 but the next guy down has a hard time at $150. Its the reputation. I know I am not alone in this but you the barkers, clark, sharp, besset, walsh and a couple others are all people I heard of prior to owning a computer, reptiles mag or meating you all at a show. i guess what I am trying to say is you providing a site where people can compete with you, isnt going to affect you, people either want to spend the money for the name and qaulity or they dont.
Earleir someone made a comment about me trying to be a judge. One thing I wanted to point out is my judgment of Adam Block came from my personal experiances with him and his childish way of handling them. Like I said I called them and asked how to file a complaint aganst him. We were at the 3.5wk mark, had we hit 4wks and I didnt get my stuff I would have filed that complaint with Kingsnake, Paypal and his web provider. Now Jeff being pissed about you not removing the thread about him. Say you had a privacy policy about these types of things. And say within that you had a bunch of cmplaints about Adam. Whether or not Jeff did have complaints about Adam I do not know for sure but can only guess he did considering the way I was treated and him admitting to the two people he admits he had ripped off. In one of the threads on the BOI he made comments about owing some people money for a very long time and said something to the likes of "well I never paid them but thats between me and them and if they want it the can get ahold of me" he just bluntly says I could give a sh!t less that I ripped them off. Now under that privacy policy you got complaints against someone who has admittingly ripped others off, treats all/most of his costumers like crap etc. Then this whole situation pops up. You finally have what you need to get him off you classfied boards to make a more pleasant experiance for all. Then he comes over here and tries to create this I hate kingsnake club. Now wouldnt it fustrate the hell out of you, if you held the key to show everyone what kind of person he really is but because you live by your word and policies you could do nothing about it and you have to sit back and watch everyone take shoots at you and listen to this Jeffs ego this and that. Now this isnt the first time we have seen all of this either. Pretty much everytime I have seen someone post on this board about Jeff what it came down to was "my ad got delted and I had to cuss them out for it now they banned me, its all Jeff and his ego" Wouldnt you get sick and tired of that? Holding the key to show people hey look I am a decent person, this guy deserved to go. But because you live by your word and policies all you can do is sit back and take the blows. Wouldnt that get to you? I know you can say well he doesnt have to come look, lets face it though its human nature curiosity gets the best of ya and you want to go look and see whats going on now. I know that would just crawl up under my skin if everyone thought I was someone that I wasnt because I had to live by a gag order.
Quote:
All those people who go to the website, even for a second, add to the number of hits that a website gets
Ya but if its costing you money and there going to a competing site do you really want to pay for that? And after you have put hard work into your site and spent years building it, it seems kind of fake to me to want that kind of traffic or to say hey look how many hits I got but their not really yours. Its sorta like, there was a new reptile show out east a month of or so ago. Well this show had about 5000 people through the door so the numbers were there. But you know how they got 5000 people through the door by advertising to the general public which created a large petting zoo affect. There was alot of advertising done within the reptile community, but the bulk was to the general public just to get people through the door to count heads. All I heard from 90% of the vendors was complaints. Due to the type of advertising used the vendors didnt sell much off their overpriced tables and spent all day with "can I touch this" "do snakes eat flies" "can I feed a monitor P@J sandwiches" etc To me thats fake because ya they had alot of people through the door but the majority were there for the petting zoo. I am not saying theres anything wrong with advetising to the general public and getting some new faces or peolpe into reptiles but when its done in a manner to count heads and put money in the owners pocket, to me that seems fake.
Quote:
Jeff hits Daytona most years... hangs around after the fact as many people are likely to do... Take a look at who he hangs around with.
Yes I see him every year at Tinley park, my opinion has never been he hangs with anyone to inflate his ego, its simply that he would like a break. He lives by Kingsnake night and day, at the show he spends all day talking about it and anserring questions about kingsnake. So god forbid that after the show he just want to hang out and be one of the crowd, not the owner of KS. I go through the same thing, granted I dont deal with near the volume but for me its more then enough my site is the only site specifically geared towards Dumerils I get hammered with emails all the time. I go to a show and spend all day talking about Dumerils you know what after the show is over I dont want to spend all night talking about Dumerils, I would like to just hang out be part of the group and get to know the people around me. Ya know sometimes ya just need a break you just want to be yourself and not this person the public sees you as. When I have met Jeff at shows after hours thats the feeling I got from him, he just wanted to be himself and one of the crowd. Mabye what you are seeing is him hanging around with people who treat him as an equal that are not so secces driven and maybe they can forget the issue of kingsnake for a while. And maybe its that he doesnt have an ego and likes to help the smaller guy. At Tinley a freind of mine, Bob Clark and his crew and I all went out for some drinks the one night. The feeling I get from what your saying is Bob only allowed me to go because it stroked his ego? We all went out and had a good time, I didnt see any ego there. My friend and I spent the night teasing Bob and his crew about eastern hospitality because of an upcoming show they had out east. By the end of the show we were all having some fun with it. I didnt see anyone trying to think "hey I am bigger then you" just a bunch of guys having fun and personally I think they apreciated the fact that they didnt get hammered with questions about retics all night. Thats just my take on it all. But I agree with Rich I doubt well ever see eye to eye and we can hammer this into the ground all we want.
 
Old 12-27-2002, 10:13 AM   #23
Seamus Haley
Quote:
Ya but if its costing you money and there going to a competing site do you really want to pay for that?
In most instances on KS though, these links make them money rather than cost it when it's all added together...

Sure, it does eat a bit of bandwidth when someone hops onto the KS mainpage because they can't remember the URL for another website and know that it's linked but...

All those links on the front page, people had to pay money to get them.

All those people who have classified accounts, many of them at this point paid for them specifically because they know the number of hits KS gets and decided to place them there based on the likelyhood of their ad being seen.

The same goes for KS banner ads or web-hosting services.

Sure it costs a bit of money but the cost is seemingly much lower than thr profits that are generated because of it. Complaining that traffic on a commercial site eats bandwidth and costs money is sort of like complaining that your piebald ball python is costing you a fortune in rats if you get my drift (It's early, analogies are hard).

Rich's bandwidth problems are a bit more severe since he doesn't at this point make a profit off this website. The advertising dollars for banner ads are seemingly barely enough to cover the cost of his server much less the time he invests or any profit above that. He doesn't yet really offer hosting services though (likely to change if I understand some other posts correctly) and... Well, how many people have told him to charge for classified accounts? Even $5 or $10 and he might start to see a bit of a profit or at least cover his costs a bit more...

Kingsnake on the other hand charges comparatively huge amounts for these same services and the basis for their prices lies in the number of visitors the website gets so logically increases in traffic for any reason are a positive thing because they can be used to convince more people to use the services and will support any thoughts that exist for rate increases.
 
Old 12-27-2002, 10:14 AM   #24
Casey Hulse
What about a rebuttal?

I know Jeff is very busy, but I think that if he wanted to justify his actions as far as banning fauna, he could come here and do so himself.
Jason assume that Rich is being truthfull about the ban and answer the question he posed to you. Do you agree with the ban? yes or no.
 
Old 12-27-2002, 11:19 AM   #25
WebSlave
Quote:
I wish I could answer that quetion Rich but the fact of matter is I have only heard 1/2 of the story. Its human nature to twist things to our liking. I am not at all saying that you have done that intetionally but you know as well as I that when posting in an enviroment such as this its human nature to word things to sway people towards our side, whether its done intentionally or not. Taking that into acount with out hearing the conversation I cant make a judgment on whether he was right or wrong. All I have tried to do is maybe from my point of veiw shed some light as to why.
So is this a waffle or a Jeff Barringer ass-smooching, Jason? The fact that you did not answer my pointed questions to you puts you squarely in the category of being a troll.

What a crock. "I wish I could answer that quetion Rich........." The question is very simple and easy to answer Jason. Matter of fact, even being rhetorical, it still wouldn't require any belief on your part whether it really happened or not. Either you believe Jeff is justified in what I stated he did or you don't. Stop your damned waffling. If you believe Jeff is justified to do whatever he wants, whenever he wants, then certainly you can do that. Just let us know where you stand.

Just answer this very plain and simple rhetorical question, Jason: Is Party A justified in banning Party B's site from being mentioned on Party A's site when Party B (the owner of said site) refuses to delete a thread that Party A doesn't like on Party B's site?

I have told the entire truth of the incident. No coloring added. No falsifications. Nothing. The phone conversation I had with Jeff was very short and sweet. No harsh words were exchanged at all. When Jeff told me he was going to ban any mention of the BOI on his site, I merely replied, "That's fine, Jeff." And I honestly resent the fact that you would infer that I would lie about something like this. You claim you have been with the BOI since it's inception. Then how can you make such an inferrence like you did above? Self interest aside, that is.

If you believed for even a millisecond that I would lie about such a thing, then what in the heck are you even doing on this site? What the heck is the use of something like the BOI if you don't believe in the person running it? Do you have any idea of the pressure this thing has put me under to keep my nose clean at all times? This site's credibility is MY credibility.

I only rarely go to KS anymore and then it is only to post the rare message on the Corn Snake forum on that site. So there is no way I could have violated a TOS there. I never mention the BOI nor FaunaClassifieds there. I have trouble even coming up with a scenario that would fit all the facts I have stated, that you could twist within that head of yours to even infer that I could be lying about this incident.

I told the facts exactly as they happened. Just because it may be YOUR human nature to sway things to favor your own self, please don't measure everyone by your yardstick. Apparently you would rather assume that I am lying rather than unwrap your lips from Jeff's butt, is that it? Knowing what little you must about both Jeff and I it is easier for you to believe I would concoct something like this out of thin air rather than Jeff actually doing what I said he did?

Go ahead, Jason, go talk to Jeff and ask him what happened, then come on back here and tell us. I have to admit that I am curious myself to hear what Jeff would have to say about this. I would like to see (for my own sake - since obviously it would be my word against Jeff's) whether Jeff will twist this around himself. But I would know, and that's what would matter to me.
 

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