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Old 12-01-2010, 07:37 PM   #11
also what do you say about the pretty solid proof that you have sold snakes that we're in contact with the snake in question. Have you let the buyers know that there could be a possiblility that these snakes may carry IBD?
Old 12-01-2010, 08:10 PM   #12
IIRC the incident happened what, almost a year ago? With IBD, it can go unnoticed longer in boas, but pythons will get it and pass substantially quicker than boas. If it's been almost a year and I KNOW she had her spider ball python BEFORE the infected BCL, and the carpet python she has, reticulated pythons, and ball python are still alive, it sounds like the isolated case is just that - isolated.

i've been reading and re-reading info on IBD and every vet site and reptile site I've read (Courtney posted links in another thread as well) say that pythons that contract IBD pass faster than boas.
Old 12-01-2010, 08:13 PM   #13
I'm going to put it out there - Ashley and I ARE friends, and I do think some of this has gone overboard, I have also told Ashley that she has made a mistake with all of this broadcasting of her own personal information.

Now that everything is out there, I do not think she has a case of IBD in her collection. I can also vouch that she would take one of her snakes to the vet in a heart beat if there was an issue. Setting aside financial discrepancies people are bringing up, I can honestly say that she DOES have good intentions.

Carry on.
Old 12-01-2010, 08:21 PM   #14
It just could of been that her pythons weren't infected, she specifically said that the het albino boas were the ones that were most likely exposed. Just because her pythons didn't get it doesn't mean her boas didn't and aren't carrying it. You can't be sure, IBD works in weird ways. It's just better to be safe than sorry considering how little we know about it.
Old 12-01-2010, 08:27 PM   #15
Originally Posted by AddictedToBoas View Post
It just could of been that her pythons weren't infected, she specifically said that the het albino boas were the ones that were most likely exposed. Just because her pythons didn't get it doesn't mean her boas didn't and aren't carrying it. You can't be sure, IBD works in weird ways. It's just better to be safe than sorry considering how little we know about it.
from what I'm reading about IBD, it sounds like pythons contract the disease much more easily than boas. One of the papers I'm reading is written by a professor at the University here where I live/attend. I will see if I can get in contact with him as he specializes in reptile vet practices.

Again, it seems like, from what I've read, that the exposure to contraction time for pythons is much faster and they show symptoms and die quicker than boas. Yes, moving a quarantined snake WITH the other snakes was a bad move. Personally I would not have done it.

Ashley also posted that Yvonne's snakes were kept and bred with some of hers. Yvonne has not lost any snakes to IBD SINCE that time either.

I agree that IBD is tricky. I also know Yvonne has pythons as well and again, since pythons contract IBD easier, she hasn't lost anything so I think it's more than likely the case was an isolated incident.
Old 12-01-2010, 08:40 PM   #16
Originally Posted by AddictedToBoas View Post
You can't be sure, IBD works in weird ways. It's just better to be safe than sorry considering how little we know about it.
That's my opinion as well, and one expressed by some of the main researchers studying this disease.

There's a LOT of unknowns pertaining to IBD.
Including how long it can lie dormant in a collection, and exactly how it's transmitted.

I think you guys are expecting IBD would have just wiped out her pythons in a short period of time, and completely relying on the viability of her pythons to give her collection a complete bill of clean health.

I don't think it's responsible to rely on "well my Pythons are still alive so it wasn't IBD" as a proof positive.

She's lost 3 or 4 snakes in this past year's time. There are reports of snakes not showing ANY signs of IBD, being asymptomatic and lacking the presence of inclusion bodies in necropsies. These are discrepancies in her claim that she hasn't lost any more snakes. Personally, I think further testing should be done on ALL the snakes in the collection.. I think it should have been done IMMEDIATELY after the FIRST report.

I don't know for sure that she does or does not have IBD because SHE doesn't know without a shadow of a doubt if she does or doesn't have IBD.

What IS known is that there is Ashley's admission she had IBD and the necropsy to back it up followed with 3-4 dead snakes within the past year.

She stated she was NOT to sell the snakes she thought might be exposed, but her posts show she did before having any further testing and receiving a proven clean bill of health in the collection.
Old 12-01-2010, 08:41 PM   #17
It's definitely a possibility it was isolated and yes from what I have read pythons are affected more rapidly than boas but I haven't read anything about them being more susceptible. The only really significant thing I've seen is that boas can carry and not show while pythons can't.

Like I said before it's just better to be safe than sorry and inform your customers of the possibility that exposure might have happened. No one can remember exactly what happened a year ago, maybe she touched one of her boas after touching the BCL but not the pythons... It's really hard to say. I'm not accusing her of anything or claiming her animals are diseased I just think she should do what she has said she would do. Give it another year to be sure and warn customers of that possibility, though slim it may be, after all this time.

If Yvonne's animals were housed with hers she has the same responsibility even though her animals haven't shown any symptoms either.
Old 12-01-2010, 08:43 PM   #18
I understand, and respect what you are saying. And I am sort of relying on the fact that her pythons aren't wiped out completely as more solid proof, but I think it's also important to show that Yvonne's collection was exposed to the potential risk of IBD and her snakes are all alive and well. So there's two sort of potential proofs that there are no signs of IBD.

But for anyone to NOT quarantine ANY animals is absolutely ludicrous, unless you can walk through and see the condition of the animals yourself and you can without a shadow of a doubt trust that person.
Old 12-01-2010, 08:44 PM   #19
One of those boas died from an infection of the reproductive tract while it was gravid... maybe IBD related, maybe not. IBD suppresses the immune system.
Old 12-01-2010, 08:44 PM   #20
My point being she doesn't KNOW it was an isolated incident, and didn't when she sold snakes.

That's all the point that's attempting to be made here.

You may drag in whomever you wish, but I think even a vet will agree that without testing the snakes in the collection, it can't be absolutely ruled out as "clean".
All we have is her word, which I think has proven itself to change.

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