Info Ashley Caspillo-SakaraGT4/Sakara *Possible Buyer Beware!* - Page 3 - FaunaClassifieds
FaunaClassifieds  
 Sponsors »  Breeders | Dealers |  Importers/Exporters | Caging | Feed | Supplies | Services | Events 
  Inside FaunaClassifieds » Product Reviews |  Classifieds!   | Photo Gallery   | Banner Advertising 
 
  Want to help support this site? Click here.

Go Back   FaunaClassifieds > Reptile & Amphibian - Business Forums > Board of Inquiry®

Notices

Board of Inquiry® This forum is provided exclusively for the discussion of specific persons or businesses in the herp industry. YOUR FULL NAME is required for each message you post.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-01-2010, 08:44 PM   #21
RachelSS
Quote:
Originally Posted by AddictedToBoas View Post
It's definitely a possibility it was isolated and yes from what I have read pythons are affected more rapidly than boas but I haven't read anything about them being more susceptible. The only really significant thing I've seen is that boas can carry and not show while pythons can't.

Like I said before it's just better to be safe than sorry and inform your customers of the possibility that exposure might have happened. No one can remember exactly what happened a year ago, maybe she touched one of her boas after touching the BCL but not the pythons... It's really hard to say. I'm not accusing her of anything or claiming her animals are diseased I just think she should do what she has said she would do. Give it another year to be sure and warn customers of that possibility, though slim it may be, after all this time.

If Yvonne's animals were housed with hers she has the same responsibility even though her animals haven't shown any symptoms either.
Agreed 150%
 
Old 12-01-2010, 08:45 PM   #22
AddictedToBoas
Quote:
That's my opinion as well, and one expressed by some of the main researchers studying this disease.

There's a LOT of unknowns pertaining to IBD.
Including how long it can lie dormant in a collection, and exactly how it's transmitted.

I think you guys are expecting IBD would have just wiped out her pythons in a short period of time, and completely relying on the viability of her pythons to give her collection a complete bill of clean health.

I don't think it's responsible to rely on "well my Pythons are still alive so it wasn't IBD" as a proof positive.

She's lost 3 or 4 snakes in this past year's time. There are reports of snakes not showing ANY signs of IBD, being asymptomatic and lacking the presence of inclusion bodies in necropsies. These are discrepancies in her claim that she hasn't lost any more snakes. Personally, I think further testing should be done on ALL the snakes in the collection.. I think it should have been done IMMEDIATELY after the FIRST report.

I don't know for sure that she does or does not have IBD because SHE doesn't know without a shadow of a doubt if she does or doesn't have IBD.

What IS known is that there is Ashley's admission she had IBD and the necropsy to back it up followed with 3-4 dead snakes within the past year.

She stated she was NOT to sell the snakes she thought might be exposed, but her posts show she did before having any further testing and receiving a proven clean bill of health in the collection.
amercnwmn said it waaaay better than I did.
 
Old 12-01-2010, 08:45 PM   #23
RachelSS
Quote:
Originally Posted by sally-dog View Post
One of those boas died from an infection of the reproductive tract while it was gravid... maybe IBD related, maybe not. IBD suppresses the immune system.
I remember this thread, and I remember reading what she posted as the necropsy results, which was long before the BCL. This boas death had nothing to do with IBD.
 
Old 12-01-2010, 08:47 PM   #24
RachelSS
Quote:
Originally Posted by amercnwmn View Post
My point being she doesn't KNOW it was an isolated incident, and didn't when she sold snakes.

That's all the point that's attempting to be made here.

You may drag in whomever you wish, but I think even a vet will agree that without testing the snakes in the collection, it can't be absolutely ruled out as "clean".
All we have is her word, which I think has proven itself to change.
Like I said, I completely understand and respect what you are saying, my point is, not one snake from two collections of 20+ snakes (Yvonne's collection is larger than Ashley's) and not one snake has died since the incident.

No, by no means, does it mean there isn't IBD lurking, or a potential. I just think it's more than likely IBD does not exist in either collection, but regardless, anyone purchasing from EITHER seller should quarantine any animals bought, regardless.
 
Old 12-01-2010, 08:49 PM   #25
AddictedToBoas
Quote:
Originally Posted by RachelSS View Post
I remember this thread, and I remember reading what she posted as the necropsy results, which was long before the BCL. This boas death had nothing to do with IBD.
If this is true then unless at some other point Yvonne's animals were in with Sakara's Yvonne is in the clear. As far as I know that was the only time Yvonne had given some of her snakes to Sakara for breeding and this is the incident that I think Sakara was referring to when she said Yvonne's animals were housed with hers.
 
Old 12-01-2010, 08:53 PM   #26
Adrya
I'm going to come out in the open here and explain my situation here for a minute.

People most commonly seem to think that IBD ravages through collections quickly. In some cases it does, and in some cases it doesnt. From my own observations with my own snakes, quickly is not the case.

I had one of my favorite boas die in March 2009. She had a sudden severe case of pneumonia and stomatitis, and that is even what her necropsy/pathology results stated, but they also confirmed inclusion bodies (IBD) found in the liver and intestinal tissues tested.

I am not positive as to which snake was carrying the disease or how long it has been brewing, but even my strict quarantine protocols taking place in a building completely seperate from my reptile building was not enough to keep a snake from sneaking the disease into my collection, even after quarantining each new animal for over 6 months.

Since nearly two years ago, I have lost 6 snakes, two of which were voluntarily euthanized myself, and one of which I just lost this evening. I am still battling the disease.

First was the initial boa (died March 2009) that tested positive for IBD. Next was a subadult female ball python (died winter 2009-2010), my adult male blood python (died June 2010), another female boa (euthanized Oct. 2010), a male boa (euthanized Oct. 2010), and this evening (Dec. 1st) my female suriname boa. The male boa, even though he still ate and drank normally, began to severely become anorexic and lose all muscle mass over time since the death of the first initial boa. He had also developed a large tumor, which is also a side effect of IBD. He eventually became skin and bones like you wouldn't believe, and so I put him out of his misery. The same was for the other female boa (not the initial). She also became anorexic, and also had a slight odd head wobble.

In some of my other boas and a python currently, I will often see them stare straight up for long periods of time. They don't arch over their own bodies or flip over like in some more severe cases of IBD. My snakes will just stare up and will be completely unaware of my presence when I walk around the room or wave my arm at them. I will even bang my fist hard on the side of the enclosure a few times and they will be unresponsive, and it takes quite an effort to get their attention, even when opening the enclosure door. Sometimes they respond when I bang on the side of the enclosure, but much of the time it takes effort, or I even have to touch them to get them to snap out of the blank staring. Other than that, they act otherwise normal, get anxious when they smell food thawing, and eat normally.

I do not have the heart to euthanize my entire collection, so the entire reptile room is under it's own lockdown and strict quarantine. The only time snakes leave the building is if they either die or are euthanized, and any snakes that become physically/visuall ill are euthanized. I still have 5 pythons, but a couple are not the same as they were nearly two years ago, so I am keeping an eye on them. I don't even enter any of the snakes' enclosures except to clean water bowls, clean enclosures or feed them. A new pair of latex gloves are used inbetween each enclosure, for cleaning water bowls, cleaning enclosures, and feeding them. For smaller prey items I use disposable chop sticks, one new pair of chop sticks for every enclosure. For the larger prey items for the big snakes, I just use the clean pair of gloves. I use diluted bleach and Nolvasan out the ass for cleaning/disinfecting all tools and surfaces and for even washing my hands and arms with inbetween each enclosure.

In my case of IBD, it is not as severe as some other cases are. IBD has different strains that all work differently.
 
Old 12-01-2010, 08:55 PM   #27
RachelSS
Quote:
Originally Posted by AddictedToBoas View Post
If this is true then unless at some other point Yvonne's animals were in with Sakara's Yvonne is in the clear. As far as I know that was the only time Yvonne had given some of her snakes to Sakara for breeding and this is the incident that I think Sakara was referring to when she said Yvonne's animals were housed with hers.
I don't think this snake was paired up with one of Yvonne's. I can't be 100% for sure. I know this snake was bred BEFORE Ashley purchased her and had retained the ova from the previous breeding. I think it was an infection that was brewing in the snakes reproductive system and was stimulated by another breeding attempt.

again, don't hold me to it, Ashley and/or Yvonne would need to verify.
 
Old 12-01-2010, 08:57 PM   #28
amercnwmn
Quote:
Originally Posted by RachelSS View Post
Like I said, I completely understand and respect what you are saying, my point is, not one snake from two collections of 20+ snakes (Yvonne's collection is larger than Ashley's) and not one snake has died since the incident.
Actually that's wrong, according to Ashley she lost 3 snakes AFTER the incident:
Quote:
I've had 3 snakes, a burm, retic and a boa all tested after passing from unrelated causes tested by toxicology on brain, liver and intestine tissues and none had any issues... None of my snakes are sick or have any problems...
So what was the cause of death? Healthy snakes normally don't just drop dead. I already posted Dr. Jacobson's statement regarding the lack of inclusion bodies not always signifying the absence of IBD

Quote:
No, by no means, does it mean there isn't IBD lurking, or a potential. I just think it's more than likely IBD does not exist in either collection, but regardless, anyone purchasing from EITHER seller should quarantine any animals bought, regardless.
Agreed, and that's why the thread is a "INFO" thread, so people who bother to research can see there MAY be a problem.

I know you would want to know if there was the slightest chance a potential purchase of yours COULD have a problem. Quarantine or not, after what I have read people like BWSmith and others experience even with their strict quarantine, I certainly wouldn't risk it.
 
Old 12-01-2010, 08:57 PM   #29
RachelSS
Adrya, I am so sorry about the loss of your collection. I wish there was something I could say or do to help.
 
Old 12-01-2010, 08:59 PM   #30
RachelSS
Quote:
Originally Posted by amercnwmn View Post
Actually that's wrong, according to Ashley she lost 3 snakes AFTER the incident:

So what was the cause of death? Healthy snakes normally don't just drop dead. I already posted Dr. Jacobson's statement regarding the lack of inclusion bodies not always signifying the absence of IBD



Agreed, and that's why the thread is a "INFO" thread, so people who bother to research can see there MAY be a problem.

I know you would want to know if there was the slightest chance a potential purchase of yours COULD have a problem. Quarantine or not, after what I have read people like BWSmith and others experience even with their strict quarantine, I certainly wouldn't risk it.
The thing that worries me with quarantine is that if there is even a CHANCE IBD can be airborne, quarantine in the same building is useless. Unless you can get from room A where the quarantine is, to room B, with showering, fresh clothes being brought to you, and being in a sterile environment, anyone who keeps boas or pythons can SERIOUSLY be screwed.
 

Join now to reply to this thread or open new ones for your questions & comments! FaunaClassifieds.com is the largest online community about Reptile & Amphibians, Snakes, Lizards and number one classifieds service with thousands of ads to look for. Registration is open to everyone and FREE. Click Here to Register!

 
Reply

Tags
ibd

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DTS Herps-buyer beware!!! JG1153 Board of Inquiry® 536 09-17-2013 12:15 PM
Their @ it again.. buyer beware. serpentboy78 Board of Inquiry® 48 10-02-2004 07:24 PM
AHP Exotics. Buyer Beware!!!!! TimCoplan Board of Inquiry® 75 12-03-2003 11:17 PM
Buyer BEWARE! Brian Oakley Board of Inquiry® 11 10-04-2002 12:56 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:43 PM.




Ebates Coupons and Cash Back



TESTING!
Fauna Top Sites


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Page generated in 0.05945492 seconds with 11 queries
Content copyrighted ©2002-2014, FaunaClassifieds, LLC