Keven Vogenberger Misrepresenting Imports.

Originally Posted by Snake-Queen

That would still fall under captive hatch, even though this species give live birth.

He states that they are captive born.....they were born in captivity. Animals born to live bearers are captive born, not captive hatched.

This is why I am not so quick to condemn someone for being deceptive when those terms are used interchangeably.

Originally Posted by MikeCurtin

He states that they are captive born.....they were born in captivity. Animals born to live bearers are captive born, not captive hatched.

This is why I am not so quick to condemn someone for being deceptive when those terms are used interchangeably.

Which is why most people moved over to "captive bred" when an animal was truly produced in captivity instead of just born or hatched in captivity.

You are correct.

I would also like to re-think my defense of innocent confusion between captive born and captive bred, James. I just went back and found a thread where I defended Keven for the same "mix up". Considering the past confusion, he should certainly be paying better attention to his descriptions of the animals he sells at this point.

Just due to his actions in his first thread, I stopped giving him the benefit of the doubt right then. Even worse than not taking responsibility for one's actions is the really disingenuous attempt to pull shade over people's eyes by immediately saying you've changed, etc. His "taking responsibility" was very superficial and in my opinion, a sad attempt at manipulation. Since then, he has further solidified that opinion with his actions.

Originally Posted by JCCS

Just due to his actions in his first thread, I stopped giving him the benefit of the doubt right then. Even worse than not taking responsibility for one's actions is the really disingenuous attempt to pull shade over people's eyes by immediately saying you've changed, etc. His "taking responsibility" was very superficial and in my opinion, a sad attempt at manipulation. Since then, he has further solidified that opinion with his actions.

You talking about Ed or Keven?

Originally Posted by Utta

You talking about Ed or Keven?

Yes.

Originally Posted by MikeCurtin

He states that they are captive born.....they were born in captivity. Animals born to live bearers are captive born, not captive hatched.

This is why I am not so quick to condemn someone for being deceptive when those terms are used interchangeably.

Well, imo I won't buy anything that is CH; nor CB without asking a ton of questions, since CB could be captive bred or born.

Captive bred is more desirable, since the breeder has both parents (excluding breeder loans) and the mother was cared for properly during her "pregnancy".

Regardless of the thread starter, this is helpful in pointing out that Keven is outright being deceptive or very ignorant of the terms used to describe his animals.

Ed, did you contact Keven about this at all? I initially gave Keven the benefit of the doubt. I stopped that a while ago after he showed himself over and over acting the same way and doing the same things.

However, I don't think it's fair to anybody to assume something and post a BOI thread. Knowing Keven, he will launch a series of hysterical posts that will further sink his credibility, which maybe is why Ed posted this rather provocative thread?

I suspect he doesn't understand the (admittedly vague) terms like CB, farmed, Captive hatched etc. If he were calling WC imports CBB I would take issue with that, but I don't see that he's doing that.

The babies in question are from an imported female according to Keven. He would do well to make sure to cross all t's and dot all i's in the future.

Originally Posted by MikeCurtin

The babies in question are from an imported female according to Keven. He would do well to make sure to cross all t's and dot all i's in the future.

That makes them captive born, which he should spell out in his ad.