Bob on Kingsnake (BAD GUY)

Well, you haven't received many snakes shipped to you if you don't know the typical cost of UPS/Fed-Ex ($50+ nowadays).

Its illegal to ship ANY snake unless it is via Delta Dash or a certified Fed-Ex account. 95% of the herp hobby violates the Lacey Act when they ship live animals. This is common knowledge, yet nobody complains. Why? Because the legalities are stupid.

Marijuana is illegal, yet kills nobody. Alcohol is legal and kills thousands of people each year. You shouldn't base your own code of ethics or morality on what is or isn't legal. Use your head.

Originally Posted by jbt123

I am complaining because it is illegal,....... BECAUSE I CARE that he shipped illegally shows that I am responsible herp hobbyist and that some of us do care if someone breaks the rules......... And whether it's "wrong" or "right", or you don't think it's a "big deal" to ship snakes via USPS, it doesn't matter: the fact is it's illiegal. End of story.

UPS does NOT allow the shipping of snakes anymore than the USPS. So why are you complaining about a guy doing something illegal and yet you are demanding/encouraging that he do the same illegal thing (i.e. break the rules) by shipping with other carriers that also do NOT allow the shipping of snakes? You do not make sense. Shipping snakes right now only happens "legally" if I am not mistaken with Delta Dash and FedEx and you have to be pre-authorized shippers to use either. You really can't just walk off the street and ship a snake with them.

the package was not properly marked, the snakes life was in jeopardy because of this, and I could have gotten in trouble. By shipping a package without proper marks (at least FRAGILE would have been nice) you are risking the life of that animal.

It is well known that marking something "Fragile" is basically putting a big "kick me" sign on the box that ENCOURAGES the handlers to play football or basketball with the box which puts the items in the box (in this case a live animal) in MORE danger for damage to occur.

Originally Posted by DavidBeard

Marijuana is illegal, yet kills nobody. Alcohol is legal and kills thousands of people each year. You shouldn't base your own code of ethics or morality on what is or isn't legal. Use your head.

David, you've said lots of dumb things here but that's one of the dumbest.

Do you really believe that no one "high" on marijuana was ever impaired enough while operating a motor vehicle to have caused a death?

While you are thinking about that one, look at http://www.cancer.org/docroot/NWS/co...ancer_Risk.asp. While lung cancer has recently been found (in one study) not to be increased, cancers of the head and neck (throat, tongue, larynx, mouth, etc.) are more common in marijuana smokers. Those can be and often are fatal cancers. Moreover, they are an absolutely miserable death.

Further, in patients with chronic lung disease ( COPD - emphysema and chronic bronchitis), marijuana smoke causes exacerbation of the condition. Such exacerbations can and occasionally are fatal. I've seen it more than once.

Making blanket statements like "kills nobody" is pretty ridiculous. If regular heavy marijuana use was anywhere near as common as regular heavy alcohol use or regular heavy tobacco use, I will wager a year's income against a dollar that the scientific data would be compelling with respect to carcinogenesis and lung disease.

If you can find me a documented case where marijuana played a part in someone's death, I'd be happy to recant my statement.

Call me "dumb" all you want, but my point remains. Marijuana is much less harmful than alcohol or tobacco yet is illegal. Kind of like shipping snakes via USPS. Too often people focus on the word "illegal" and never really stop to consider *why* something is illegal. Sound reasoning is not a requisite of illegality.

Originally Posted by DavidBeard

If you can find me a documented case where marijuana played a part in someone's death, I'd be happy to recant my statement.

Um Mr Beard,
This was an easy one.
"Even as the UN General Assembly voted this week for a death penalty moratorium, two Asian nations were once again exercising the ultimate sanction against drug offenders. In Malaysia, a man faces death for less than two pounds of marijuana, while in China, a man has been sentenced to death for trafficking in methamphetamine.

In Malaysia, Razali Ahmad, 33, was found guilty of trafficking marijuana Tuesday after police searched his house and found 858 grams. In Malaysia, the charge of trafficking carries an automatic death sentence."

Originally Posted by DavidBeard

Its illegal to ship ANY snake unless it is via Delta Dash or a certified Fed-Ex account.

Actual the differences between shipping illegal and shipping against the policy of a company is very different.

It is only illegal to ship by USPS. UPS has policies in place which violating isn't violating federal law except with the notation on marking.

The blanket statement is also incorrect in that UPS does grant several permission on a very limited basis.

Originally Posted by DavidBeard

95% of the herp hobby violates the Lacey Act
when they ship live animals. This is common knowledge, yet nobody complains. Why? Because the legalities are stupid.

My experience would lead me to state that this is true. Most don't label correctly. Not even those that have approval with FedEx.

Originally Posted by DavidBeard

Yeah, or maybe we should just NARC on everybody who does something out of line and make it look like all herpers are low life criminals.

Its not like he shipped a Mamba via the USPS, it escaped and killed a bunch of Nuns.

People regularly ship the most toxic species of scorpions on the planet via USPS and guess what you don't see concerning arachnids? Bad press in the media about them and proposed bans like we have here in the herp world.

I think theres a lot of grey area that should be payed more attention to (or less, depending on how you see it).

Theres lots of things that are "illegal" that I don't agree with. Spitting on the sidewalk is still illegal, do you call the cops if you see somebody doing that? What good does acting like Benedict Arnold on your fellow herpers do?

I could see if the guy had scammed somebody or done something negligent or dangerous. But a rubber boa? Come on now. The guy got what he paid for, the outcome could have been MUCH worse trust me.

I have a hard time seeing the difference here shipping a rubber boa compared to your positions in the past.

Originally Posted by DavidBeard

If you can find me a documented case where marijuana played a part in someone's death, I'd be happy to recant my statement.

Call me "dumb" all you want, but my point remains. Marijuana is much less harmful than alcohol or tobacco yet is illegal. Kind of like shipping snakes via USPS. Too often people focus on the word "illegal" and never really stop to consider *why* something is illegal. Sound reasoning is not a requisite of illegality.

Hmm....take these figures, take into account the number of people using marijuana regularly vs the number who use alcohol regularly....and wow. These happen to be from the Boston metro area...first I came across.

I apologize for that being so darn big, I'm at work and don't have the same tools I have at home to take a decent screenshot and keep it readable yet not huge, lol.

Originally Posted by The BoidSmith

Not so long ago we discussed this topic in this

thread:http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...ive+snake+USPS

I voted on that poll when it first came out. My position was "Accept the package and never do business with that individual again"

I don't believe attracting attention by the government would be best. I wouldn't have reported it. I also don't believe in supporting those who aren't willing to go the extra step to ship in a way that is less likely to draw attention, regulations and penalties to the community. IMO

I am complaining because it is illegal, the package was not properly marked, the snakes life was in jeopardy because of this, and I could have gotten in trouble. By shipping a package without proper marks (at least FRAGILE would have been nice) you are risking the life of that animal. Plus, you don't know how wary I've been today, I feel like a criminal, but I know it's not my fault that he shipped the snake before he told me how he was going to do so. I specifically said "I assume you are shipping UPS or FedEx, right?" and he never answered that question for me.


I'm empathetic for you, but jumping the gun on this whole "who do I report this to?" doesn't excuse you from the responsibility of not freaking out. So I guess my next question for you is: who ARE you reporting this guy to? Authorities? USPS? Because I think getting his account on USPS suspended would do more good than crying wolf and giving the community another black eye, as per Dennis' most recent post.

My point is: don't be selfish and think about the bigger picture. What will get you results without screwing everyone over.


While I don't agree with D. Beard's latter statements regarding Marijuana, he and Dennis are after the same mindset I was when I first read the OP.