The PROOF that venomoid snakes are not safe!`

Originally Posted by creatism123

my proceedure was twice a yr put a live rat in there let the snake bite it a couple of times pull out the rat and put in a cage leave over night. in the morning if its still alive you have a successful venomiod. if its dead well you know what happened

am i the only one that thinks this is cruel and unnecessary? Shouldnt better practices be followed when checking a venomoid? Maybe like KY reptile zoo's videos?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrWhb...eature=channel

and in lue of the "rat test" you can always milk it to. i just have issues milking snakes. just a personal thing.

You should learn then. Isnt that part of learning to keep hots? I would think that it would be the same if you have to test a venomoid as well.....

While the live prey test isn't foolproof, or without risks (I've seen intact cobras get pretty nasty bites from live rats during feeding), milking falls under the category of unnecessary handling, IMO.
Many people have kept a venomous snake for years without ever having to touch it, so I don't agree that milking is a mandatory part of keeping. Your average hot keeper doesn't really have much reason to milk a venomous snake...what is the point? I've done it a few times over the years - mostly to satisfy a few of my own curiosities or to demonstrate things to a herpetology class - but it was never a routine practice, even if I had a hot in hand for some legitimate reason.

Originally Posted by hhmoore

While the live prey test isn't foolproof, or without risks (I've seen intact cobras get pretty nasty bites from live rats during feeding), milking falls under the category of unnecessary handling, IMO.
Many people have kept a venomous snake for years without ever having to touch it, so I don't agree that milking is a mandatory part of keeping. Your average hot keeper doesn't really have much reason to milk a venomous snake...what is the point? I've done it a few times over the years - mostly to satisfy a few of my own curiosities or to demonstrate things to a herpetology class - but it was never a routine practice, even if I had a hot in hand for some legitimate reason.

thank you mr moore. when i kept venomous i handled them as little possible, and never had to nore felt the need milk or restrain the snake like your milking it. there fore i dont feel the need to do it to venomoids, the rat test poses some risk to the animal and would never recomend it the bite and hold eaters of the venomous world. (gabbys come to mind in this catagory as do most aboreals) i did it with cobras because after yrs of watching them hunt and kill they are fairly accurite and don't hold onto prey. the rat test is not fool proof nore should it be used inlue of good handling practices. like i said this is my own personal protocal with venomoids and figured i would share it.

Originally Posted by creatism123

i did it with cobras because after yrs of watching them hunt and kill they are fairly accurite and don't hold onto prey.

lol - holding the prey is exactly how the cobras I mentioned got bitten. Apparently, they weren't used to their dinner being able to fight back (they were raised on f/t).

its amazing how they learn and adapt to your captive enviroments. when ever i did the rat test the cobra went into more defensive than eating. so i am not sure he evan thought it was food.

which is why i agree it is not fool proof. adult venomous have been know to give dry bites so it can be assumed that a venomoid who has regrown can and will do the same the thing.

the snakes need there venom to kill there prey but in captivity we feed dead so if the snake has no problems or pain from the sergery and has no problem being fed why is it such an issue its like having your tonsils removed i had mine removed and im fine have not had 1 problem also before i used to carry a loaded gun and was always angry iching to shoot someone but now i got theropy and have no anger isues and never carry a harmfull weapon and everyones happy and everyones safe EXAMPLE <<<< i think the people owning hots should be the ones to worry about there alot more chance for error when it comes to a timebomb im in canada and im sure we lack most antivenom not to sure but i would asume since we dont get many venomous snake bites there for i choose venomoids if your worried the venom we reproduce have a vet check it for you every 3-6 months milking in to stressfull i think and rats will tear a snake up if they get chance but theres always mice,mice work good and out of 12+ years exp i havent seen a mouse injure a snake im sure they have at sometime but i wouldnt be to worryed i seen rats take off a nostril before from a snake i rescuced ,throw a mouse in let it tag it few times if the snakes at such a large size that the fangs could kill mouse maby upsize to rat but only by restraining its head with tonges an hanging infront of your snake anyhow i read everyones post and i think its a great topic for thos that might think its not and more people im sure will read i have to say im with devenomoid he knows whats going on and to that youtube video this is how i feel how can you prove to me thos snakes were properly devenomed i could go grab 2 venomoid an 3 none venomoids an say all 5 are venomoids an be like wow look i just milked these and looks like only 2 are actuly venomoids in my atempt to stop people from buying and selling venomoids if thos were venomoids they were hack jobs done in gramas basment i have reserched venomoid inc and have yet to find one actuly peice of proof of any error done so if your worried who did the sergery dont buy from news papers buy from a licensed company like V.INC as for free handleing dont do it even a nasty bite from these fangs can leave a nice infection causeing some to belive they bin invenomated you can own one of these without ever having to touch it unless you get some kind of problem like stuck shed or somthing but even then theres ways treat ur snake without touching it buy ur tools before or at same time as snake dont think ahh all get them on monday last thing u want is a pissed off cobra taking control of your room ,,,ok im out but all be back when theres more to read on this topic cause its a good one

If the venomed procedure is not performed correctly, then this
is the result, and with a score of 2 out of 3 still capable of producing venom, the video speaks for itself.
I think that most of the vets that perform this type of surgery are not doing the procedure correctly, I would not put my trust in any vet that performed this procedure.
Not that they are bad vets, but just because I don't believe that enough knowledge is out there for this to be done 100% correctly.

prove to me that thos are indeed venomoids in the youtube video i think the video is just to make people think about it i seen a few videos of venomoids milking but just cause they say its a void doesnt prove anything but what it all comes down to is if you dont trust it dont get one .

Originally Posted by venomswamp

prove to me that thos are indeed venomoids in the youtube video i think the video is just to make people think about it i seen a few videos of venomoids milking but just cause they say its a void doesnt prove anything but what it all comes down to is if you dont trust it dont get one .

I ask you to go to your Venomoid Inc and ask them to give you a written guarantee signed by the vet that the veomoids they sell will NEVER produce venom again. I mean they do chip their snakes so a signed guarantee should be nothing right?

Let me answer that for you. he will not do that. He will not sign his name to a guarantee like that.

The point is that a vet his human. Humans mess up. DOCTORS MESS UP! Are you saying a vet never will. If he misses any part of the gland it will REPAIR itself and the animal can then again produce venom. That is the point of this thread.

venomoids are the uploaded gun of the hot hobby. What is it going to take a death. Why do so many react instead of prevent?

i agree humans are human and make errors but i think if the vet is highly exp in this there shouldnt be any problems its the people not exp that make errors like void inc hes preformed this on thousands of snakes and no one can prove hes made any errors in the past years i wouldnt buy a venomoid from some random person coarse not but from a very exp person with many years of sucesss i beleive its pretty safe but anyone who gets one should have exp and if so it shouldnt be to hard to check for regrowth every so offten to insure its still safe voids are by far safer then hothots if treated like a hot and theres more reasons to not putting anything on paper that it will never regrow as its bin explained if someone took out the chip that is to a void an puts it in a fullblownhot takes a bite an starts a lawsuit stating the snake he got was a void how does a seller prove the truth thousands of dollars in lawyer fees an hours in court crazy ya but some people are ...